Deadline Deals

Discussion in 'Personnel moves' started by twslam07, Nov 6, 2017.

  1. hrdboild

    hrdboild Well-Known Member

    I've been waiting 3 years for a chance to poach this guy. Detroit is clinging to a playoff spot in a suddenly tough Eastern Conference and Stanley remains a complete black hole on offense. I think Stan Van Gundy almost has to move him at this point since he's not going to get that team into the playoffs without some changes and Stanley is their best moveable asset. I don't know that Garrett Temple alone is going to get it done though he has some value as a productive 3 and D veteran. George Hill looks like a perfect player for them on paper. They need a shooter in the backcourt, they want to clear Reggie Jackson off the payroll if possible, and they need a steady veteran presence at PG to replace him. They'd have to throw in Boban or Jon Leuer to make the salaries match though. Clearly Stanley Johnson would fit a position of need for us but the questions would be:

    (1) Are his shooting problems correctable?
    (2) Is it worth taking on a huge chunk of salary (Reggie Jackson/Jon Leuer) just to get Stanley Johnson?

    Granted we'd also be clearing George Hill off the books but he only has one more guaranteed year on his deal (with a $1M buyout for the following season) so we'd be adding about 27 million in dead salary in the 2019-2020 season as a result. We can afford it, especially since it won't interfere with our ability to re-sign any of our core players, but it doesn't look like a fair trade unless you really strongly believe in Stanley Johnson as a prospect.

    My answers to those questions are: (1) I think so. His college shooting numbers are plenty respectable and it's quite obvious just from watching him that he's not squaring up to the basket or completing his follow-through with any kind of consistency. These are obvious and correctable flaws but it's worrying that he seems to be getting worse not better as his NBA career plays out. Some of that is confidence issues and it's already been well-reported that he has a rocky relationship with Coach Van Gundy which may be a contributing factor. Could be that a change of scenery would do him good. He absolutely has to get a lot better as a shooter to have a chance as a rotation player, there's no doubt about that. (2) Probably, but only if you believe Stanley's offensive talent can be recovered. Believe it or not, Stanley would actually be the third youngest player on our team if we traded for him (only Papagiannis and Fox are younger) so it's conceivable that he's got a lot more development to do. I absolutely loved Stanley coming out of Arizona -- he was a bit raw even then on offense but his strength and defensive awareness were extremely impressive. Then again, I've been wrong before (Derrick Williams) so who knows.
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2018 at 12:51 AM
    CelticsFan likes this.
  2. biltalent

    biltalent Well-Known Member

    I pretty much agree with all of this. I'm okay with taking on Leuer (as I think he could bring much needed spacing to the front court), however I would not want to take Jackson back. I'd rather try to get Ish Smith if anything :)

    Sure, but the trade doesnt work with the CBA rules. You could expand it to Temple+Koufos for Leuer+Johnson.
  3. sactowndog

    sactowndog Active Member

    They have to pay Bradley and develop minutes for Kennard. Why do you think Temple fits? I would think a ZBo for Leuer/Johnson might be a better fit.
    CelticsFan likes this.
  4. Iced Espresso

    Iced Espresso Well-Known Member

    Just saw this and was going to mention it.
  5. hrdboild

    hrdboild Well-Known Member

    Depth, veteran leadership in the playoffs I guess. I'm not all that sure that they would want Temple actually except the report says they're looking for a wing. I'd thrown out Malachi Richardson as a potential option in Detroit trades before but I'm not sure he has much value either. Probably they have their sights set a little higher (they made an offer for Evan Fournier already).

    I've been inventing Stanley Johnson trades for years but from this current roster the only players I can really see starting a conversation would be Willie Cauley-Stein (they'd have to throw in more at this point) or George Hill because of their Reggie Jackson problems. The pitch would be that they can replace Reggie Jackson with a PG who can shoot the 3pt shot with consistency (top 5 in the league right now) who also happens to be a highly regarded veteran and a respectable team defender with a reasonable deal ($1M buyout after next season) and also dump an undesirable salary at the same time, that seems like a pretty good reason to trade a 21 year old lottery pick away before his rookie contract is up. Reggie Jackson doesn't help us in any way, but he might be the additional tax we have to pay to make a trade happen.

    ZBo is playing well enough this season to imagine that he might still have some value to a playoff team but I don't think he makes a trade happen on his own. I think you have to add in George Hill and then you're looking at 32 million in salary you have to match. Hill and Randolph for Jackson, Leuer, and Johnson comes close.
  6. ESP47

    ESP47 Well-Known Member

    In the end the Kings would have basically paid tens of millions of dollars for 6 months of contributions/leadership from Hill and ZBo for two players they don't need in Jackson and Leuer and a long shot prospect in Johnson. I'd give Johnson a shot but I don't see the Kings wasting that kind of money to get him plus two other guys with low value.
    206Fan likes this.
  7. hrdboild

    hrdboild Well-Known Member

    To be honest, I don't see it happening either. If Vlade wanted Johnson he would have drafted him when he had the chance and his value has only gone down since then. I don't see anyone else on our roster that helps Detroit win now so if we're not willing to take on Reggie Jackson's contract in a George Hill swap than Johnson probably ends up somewhere else. I'm motivated to make a trade only because Stanley Johnson is one of my favorite prospects of the last 5 years and I haven't given up on him figuring it out yet but I'm also concerned by how bad his offense has been. He's still young but clearly there's reason to doubt he's actually an NBA player and that means there's a considerable level of risk involved with trading actual assets for him.

    Reggie Jackson could actually have some value still as a player -- he's not a complete scrub -- but he's not a good fit for our current situation either and it's unlikely we can swing him to a third time without including a draft pick or a young player. If I really wanted to I could try to come up with a three-way trade where someone else gets Reggie and maybe Cauley-Stein in exchange for something decent but meh, that's taking an already unlikely scenario and making it improbable. Not really worth the effort.
  8. ESP47

    ESP47 Well-Known Member

    I'm surprised Detroit hasn't sent him to the G League to try and get his offense going. Whether it's a confidence thing or his touch, you'd think he would have a better shot at working it out down there. His defense is solid but that offense is so bad that I'm surprised he even gets as many minutes as he does with Detroit being a playoff team.

    Yeah the more I look at the trade scenarios, the more depressed I get because there aren't very many homes out there for Hill, Temple, ZBo our Koufos. KK would be the guy I'd trade last since he's not that old and could be here if the young guys ever improve but it's the other guys I worry about. You're right about Reggie Jackson. Doesn't fit what we're doing here and has a big contract so we could flip him but it would probably be for an even worse contract. Reggie is too talented to just sit but would just get in the way of our development if you played him. Almost makes you wish the Kings never spent the money in the first place.
  9. Čarolija

    Čarolija Well-Known Member

    I think it will be really difficult to find trades for some of the veterans that fit what we are looking for.

    It has been well documented that Kings are trying to get a 1st round pick in 2019 draft. Outside of trading a good young player that they don’t really want to trade, I cannot see it happening.

    Of the veterans, Kufous, Temple and Carter are the most moveable despite most wanting Randolph and Hill moved. The reason the first 3 are tradeable is because they are practically expiring deals. No team will want to take Zbo or Hill without dumping their bad contracts on the Kings.

    While people are hoping for a trade, I don’t think we will see a significant one. Kings want cap flexibility, picks and young players. No team will trade those for our vets and those contracts.

    I would hate to move VC because of the work he is going with the young kids especially Giles and Skal. Temple and Koufos also bring enough veteran presence and leadership without being too big a difference makers on the court and/or not having massive salaries that no team will touch.

    Problem Kings have is that both Zbo and Hill would be great targets for play off teams but no play off team will be willing to take on their contracts and go into the luxury tax because of it. They are not enough of difference makers for the money that they are getting paid.

    I am afraid the vets that most would love to have traded are the ones that are the most difficult to trade without compromising what the Kings want (i.e. cap flexibility, first round draft picks and youth). I am sure Kings would love Randle but the needs of Kings and Lakers just don’t align for a trade to happen.
    upinsmoke, 206Fan and Iced Espresso like this.
  10. Joshoua

    Joshoua Well-Known Member

    Mario Hezonja is playing good basketball and we know Vlade wanted him at draft and earlier this year. Orlando was dumb enough to decline his option so he can be had for a 2nd or signed in FA. Hopefully his connections to Vlade gets him here as Magic fans are pissed right now about devliningbhis option.

    Since December 13 he’s averaging 12-4 shooting 36% from 3. Has good size for SF 6’8-220- 6’10 wingspan and is only 23.
    Kingster likes this.
  11. Čarolija

    Čarolija Well-Known Member

    I don’t think that will happen for the same reason as Okafor didn’t happen. The team that trades for him cannot offer him more than the value that QO would have been had Orlando picked up the option. Most of the teams would shy away but even if Kings wanted to do it, what could we possibly offer to Orlando?
  12. dude12

    dude12 Well-Known Member

    I agree with some of the above talk in regards to Detroit as a trade partner.....they are in a win now mode, have some contracts they could move but it's the youngsters I'd be interested in.......Stanley Johnson fits position wise and skill set although I hate his offense, Jon Leuer is a stretch big.....just wouldn't want to take on contracts longer than Hill's deal.

    If its Koufos and or Temple, these guys may opt out and that frees up 2 spots which we need. Need to keep those openings.

    Some quick questions...
    Is Stanley Johnson really any better than Jakarr Sampson?
    Is Henry Ellenson still with Detroit and is he a bust? What is his status?
    Can they use Zbo? They strike me as a grit and grind type of team.
  13. Joshoua

    Joshoua Well-Known Member

    Probably a 2nd he’s leaving Orlando in the off season. I think to resign him if we traded for him we’d have to go into our cap space since we wouldn’t have bird right. But that shouldn’t be a problem anyways.

    On a magic sight they’ve broke down his numbers since being inserted in the line up for Ross.

    9 games:

    14.3ppg-5.3rpg-1.8apg-1.1spg 30mpg shooting splits 49/49/85

    Also I believe he has connections with Paja so that should help
  14. Telemachus

    Telemachus Well-Known Member

    Because his option wasn't picked up, there is a limit to how much Orlando (or any team trading for him) can pay him. Other teams won't have that limit.
    Čarolija likes this.
  15. Joshoua

    Joshoua Well-Known Member

    So if we traded for him we couldn’t go over the limit? I thought we’d be able to go over the limit but than that would eat into our cap?
  16. Telemachus

    Telemachus Well-Known Member

    No. We wouldn't be able to go over the limit. I believe it is about $5.8 million for him.
    Čarolija likes this.
  17. Čarolija

    Čarolija Well-Known Member

    Nope! Can’t go over the limit, hence my original post on trading for him. If we really want him there is nothing stopping us signing him as a FA.
    Telemachus likes this.
  18. Joshoua

    Joshoua Well-Known Member

    Ya than just wait it out I’m sure the opportunity to play and the connection with Paja would put us atop his list
  19. Čarolija

    Čarolija Well-Known Member

    Not sure what connection with Peja you are talking about.

    Peja is Serbian, Hezonja is Croatian. Peja spent most of his time since retirement living in Greece. Hezonja played in Croatia before moving to Spain to play for Barcelona. I am personally not aware of any connection and I follow basketball in that region pretty closely.
  20. LPKingsFan

    LPKingsFan Well-Known Member

    Apparently, they are "family friends."
    Joshoua and Čarolija like this.
  21. Joshoua

    Joshoua Well-Known Member

    LPKings fan sent the link but I did rennet how it was a big y’all inbhis draft of the connection with Paja.
  22. 206Fan

    206Fan Well-Known Member

    What about a trade for Mo Harkless? He's only 24/25 yearsold, and he's been disappointing for Portland this year. Went from being a guy who was seen as part of Portland's future, to meh. I would think about taking on Leonard's contract for him while including a vet.

    Trade 1) George Hill+Justin Jackson for Mo Harkless+Meyers Leonard

    Trade 2) Zach Randolph+Garrett Temple for Mo Harkless+Meyers Leonard
    biltalent likes this.
  23. Cojc

    Cojc New Member

    In our position we should look to those teams that need a playoff boost. They need another piece to come in and help them now!
    So most of them want a good backup player or players like Koufas, Carter, temple and may be willing to trade someone who will be a value to us. Maybe not today but in a year or two.
    I really do not want to make what I call a sideways pick in which we get basically a player who will be like who we just traded. We have a youth movement and not a disruptive locker room so it would need to be someone of value today or tomorrow.

    Can we get that? Maybe not but if those three walk away and we just loose them in the off season their are others out there.
    206Fan likes this.
  24. ESP47

    ESP47 Well-Known Member

    I'd do it except in the first trade scenario I'd remove Jackson because I believe Hill has enough value on his own.

    Problem is that the Blazers have Lillard and McCollum so they would have no need for Hill unless one of them goes down and they still have playoff aspirations.

    Looking through the league, I'm finding it difficult to find landing spots for Hill and Koufos. Most teams already have a Koufos type player. I'd like a late first round pick for Hill but the only team I can see atop the standings that could really use him would be Cleveland but they'd probably want to unload JR Smith on us and I don't think it's worth carrying his dead weight for a few years for a super late first round pick.
  25. upinsmoke

    upinsmoke Well-Known Member

    Yeah there is no reason to trade any of our young guys and Hill does have value by himself there's no incentive to dump his contract. It's possible both Temple and KK opt out and even if they don't our cap is still gravy.
    ESP47 likes this.
  26. 206Fan

    206Fan Well-Known Member

    Right now, I think we're seeing a ton of sellers and not many buyers.
    ESP47 likes this.
  27. dude12

    dude12 Well-Known Member

    These are just moves to make moves.......without knowing exactly what we got in the young guys, we deal for 2 avg at best guys that in the end we probably wouldn't want in a year.......I'd rather see Temple opt out, give JJ longer to see if he can establish himself and wait for a team that needs Hill or let him become the expiring contract next year where a better deal could come around....especially in the offseason when teams are looking to retool the roster.
  28. rosa u podne

    rosa u podne New Member

    I think I found a couple of possible trades that could bring a 1st round pick.

    1. Hill, Papa, Skal/Malachi for Faried, Arthur, Mudiay. Nuggets are selling all of them. They need a good PG for PO run and might be willing to include a pick. That way Kings also get more cap space after next year, because of the shorter contracts.
    2. Wolves are looking for a backup wing for their PO run. They may offer Aldrich (expiring) and pick for Temple if they don't get better offer.

    I would rather keep Hill, but if his attitude is really problem, trade #1 is doable IMO.
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2018 at 2:15 PM

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