Deadline Deals

Discussion in 'Personnel moves' started by twslam07, Nov 6, 2017.

  1. Nokidding

    Nokidding Active Member

    Alec Burks has been super inconsistent last few years due to injuries but he might be worth a look, the guy is a SG who can get to the rim at will and shoots a decent % from the 3. I know we have Buddy/Boggie but we really need another player who can get to the rim with Fox and he handles the ball well enough to be similar to Tyreke at the point (not as good passer but).

    He's still only 26
  2. alden.viado

    alden.viado Member

    back on the George Hill trade scenarios....

    How about we trade him to the Clips who are trying hard to still make it to the finals.

    G.Hill / M.Richardson for P.Beverly/L.Williams/W.Johnson

    Clips get a point guard and back up SG

    We get an injured Beverley who would be a good mentor to Fox/Mason next season, Lou Williams fills in that mentor PG/SG role in the meantime (also can teach Buddy how to be a sick 6th man!) and Wes Johnson as a wing we need.

    Johnson and Beverly are both on very decent contracts which finish end of the 2018 season. Hell they could even be trading chips for the future. thoughts?

    2017-18 season
    Fox/Beverly (Lou Will)/Mason

    Oh and I'm keen in waiving VC and let him finish his career chasing a ring with the raps.
  3. macadocious

    macadocious Well-Known Member

    I had a dream last night that we shipped Hill to a team for a mid lottery pick on the night of December 15th.
  4. The Effort Police

    The Effort Police Active Member

    I'll simplify the first trade to something a little different.

    NO gives: Omer Asik, 2019 1st
    SAC gives: Zach Randolph

    New Orleans has nobody who can truly back up the twin towers when they go to the bench, at either big position. Omer Asik makes the salaries work and is a sweetener for that pick; we've all heard of that notorious contract.

    CLE gives: Shumpert, Frye, 2019 pick
    SAC gives: Hill

    I'd do it for their 2019 pick at this point. I mean, we should be trying to get 2019 picks from teams that don't think they'll suck next year or are desperate to keep something together, but may very well end up sucking next year due to circumstances.

    NO, NY, OKC, CLE. If we're going to swing a deal with someone, it should be with one of these teams for picks and to dump our vets.

    Fans are really stingy with picks, but GMs, specifically bad GMs are not. I mean, Belinelli fetched a first for us for God's sake.
    itzcoatl likes this.
  5. pdizo916

    pdizo916 Active Member

    I don't think CLE does that deal. They're basically getting rid of a first pick, a probable high pick, to get rid of Frye's contract? I don't see it happening. Your first scenario is not a bad one.
    206Fan likes this.
  6. macadocious

    macadocious Well-Known Member

    Cleveland cannot trade a 2019 pick. They owe it to Atlanta w/ protections. They can trade a 2018 since they have 2.
  7. twslam07

    twslam07 Well-Known Member

    All I hear from the Pelican's side is that they need wing help. If they are going to be using assets, they are going to want wings to balance the roster a bit. Something like...

    DEN Gets: Greg Monroe, Rajon Rondo, & Dante Cunningham
    DEN Gives: Mason Plumlee, Wilson Chandler, & Will Barton
    Why for DEN? Move Plumlee's contract for expiring to help them sign someone in the following year ($15 mil in cap space). If they are able to move Faried & Arthur for cap space as well, they will have about $36 mil in cap space with Murray, Mudiay, Harris, Beasley, Lydon, Millsap, Lyles, Hernangomez, & Jokic still under contract.

    NOP Gets: Wilson Chandler, Will Barton, & Troy Daniels
    NOP Gives: Omer Asik, Rajon Rondo, Dante Cunningham, & 2018 1st (top 3 protected)
    Why for NOP? Chandler & Barton give them some solid wings to play alongside Cousins, Davis, & Holiday. Chandler can help out on the defense side, knocking down shots and playing some smallball PF when one of Cousins or Davis is out of the game. Barton can handle, spread the floor, and be another scoring option for them.

    PHX Gets: Mason Plumlee, Omer Asik, & NOP's 2018 1st (top 3 protected)
    PHX Gives: Greg Monroe & Troy Daniels
    Why for PHX? They take on some long term salary for another pick to help with their rebuild.

    As for the Cavs trade, they can't trade their 2019 1st (because 11-30 is owed to the Hawks).
  8. Larry David

    Larry David Well-Known Member

    Good luck with that.

    I can't imagine any team wanting Hill for a season and a half (17-18 and 18-19 before paying 1 million to tear up the last year) at 19 million dollars a year. With cap space valuable again, I find it really hard to believe that anybody wants Hill at that price. So to me, his contract makes him a negative asset.

    I supposed the Kings could make a my garbage for your garbage trade where they don't get a good pick to move Hill for some old, overpaid asset that unclogs the roster. Perhaps a small forward? The salaries would have to be close in terms of size and duration. Two teams would essentially be saying, "I'm tired of looking at this guy's face. But, maybe he'd play better in your city."

    If the Kings are going to get a decent pick for Hill, they would need to be taking back absolute contract dead weight that can't play. Frankly, I don't think Asik is nearly enough because he makes half of what Hill makes. This would need to be a DeMarre Carroll or worse contract to get a late first and probably a good second rounder. Basically, this is asking the Kings to retroactively make the Carroll trade from this summer and I think that's unlikely.

    I think folks here are overvaluing Hill. I think the Kings keep him to babysit and hope to revive his value. In the meantime, his value erodes until the Kings decide in February 2019 whether they want to: (1) allow him to fall off their books; or (2) trade him for contracts as positive asset because he clears 19 million of salary and might be mildly useful in a better setting.
  9. Nokidding

    Nokidding Active Member

    If Orlando keeps faltering than I would maybe try get Nic Vucavic (the core of him Fournier/Ross/Payton has not got it done) he's turned himself into a stretch 5 who can post up similar applies to Memphis if they keep going downhill I'd really try get Green who we should have gone after in the off-season .

    Unlike Z-Bo/Hill both guys are entering there primes right now.
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2017
  10. Iced Espresso

    Iced Espresso Well-Known Member

    It's gonna be hard to get anything with our veterans with the salary they make. Wish we could be active in trade conversations more come Dec 15th, but I don't see us sending out much incentive + a veteran that will give us much.

    Troy Williams was just sent down to G league. Maybe a prospect flip, he's signed for 2 more seasons.
  11. Gguod

    Gguod Member

    Last offseason should act as a great lession for front office and our fans regarding these "veteran mentor" signings. Since we gave two years of 12m/y to a player that cant play, we are in a situation that we need to trade George Hill as soon as possible. We need cap space because our team doesnt look very good and we dont have our pick in 19' so we need to take some bad contracts paired with draft capital.

    I might have said this already couple weeks ago but that Carrol trade is a prime example what we should do and a prime example that our fans need to understand here. There were pages and pages about how the picks Nets got doesnt have real value and how Carrol is awfull but Zbo is great ect but thats just how you need to maneuver during a rebuild.

    Rebuild doesnt mean that you trade your best player in all star break and next season you are ready to give veterans free agents big contracts. Rebuild is a long process where you gather assets as much as possible by taking in bad contracts and trying out d-league players for those non guaranteed 1-3 year contracts while developing the young core. But as always we managed to shoot ourself in the foot.

    So hopefully we can get something for Hill before the deadline. We should put pretty much all our veterans on the table and take what we can get. Not any bullpoopoo deals but if someone wants to give high 2nd or even two 2nd rounders for a guy like Kosta then you take them. Zbo's contract is untradeable so unfortunately he stays. Trade Hill, Kosta for sure and Temple if you get decent return which I doubt since he seems to be underrated. Use that draft capital to manouver in this draft in a way that gives us couple of picks and more capital to nex years draft.

    Edit: And imo we should be looking into what we could get from WCS. Our centers for the future are Skal and possibly Giles anyway so getting a good value in return should be a no brainer. But first of all he needs to start in order to maximize his value. He should replace Zbo in starting 5 asap

    Edit2: alltough average centers arent worth anything anymore
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2017
    The Effort Police and Nokidding like this.
  12. twslam07

    twslam07 Well-Known Member

    I've said it many times and I will say it again. We should not be rushing the rebuild to try and be as competitive as possible for the 2019 season. I don't care that we don't have our pick. We're not ready. We should not be locking up our cap space in a desperate attempt to avoid conveying a high pick.

    One trade that got me thinking was potentially a deal with the Pelicans in the offseason. They are in a very tight spot right now. Holiday's contract prevents them from signing a great player to play alongside Cousins & Davis, and Holiday has obviously been pretty underwhelming as well.

    If they are successful in resigning Cousins, I would be interested in trying to get a king's ransom from them for taking on Holiday. Something like this:

    George Hill
    Zach Randolph


    Jrue Holiday
    E'Twaun Moore
    Solomon Hill
    2019 NOP 1st (unprotected)
    2021 NOP 1st (top 3 protected)

    The Pelicans would be left with this roster for the 2018-19 season...

    PG - Hill / Jackson
    SG - Miller
    SF -
    PF - Davis / Randolph / Diallo
    C - Cousins / Asik / Ajinca
    *2018 1st round pick

    ...which makes me think they might end up around .500 with a lack of talent around Davis & Cousins for another year in a row. Who knows? Maybe Davis or Cousins goes down with an injury and that 2019 unprotected pick all of a sudden looks really good.

    However, for the Pelicans, this trade is not about the 2018-19 season, it's about setting themselves up for the 2019 offseason. Everyone on their roster will be off the books after the 2018-19 season except for Cousins, Davis, Jackson, & the 2018 1st giving them about $45 mil in cap space. The 2019 offseason has a lot of good perimeter players they could sign: Kawhi Leonard, Jimmy Butler, Klay Thompson, Khris Middleton, Harrison Barnes, Kyrie Irving, Eric Bledsoe, & Goran Dragic. Imagine if they were able to snag one of Leonard/Butler/Thompson/Irving and one of Middleton/Barnes/Bledsoe/Dragic with the remaining cap? That would be quite the core right there. A Thompson/Middleton/Davis/Cousins core could be a serious contender.

    For the Kings, they get a couple of picks that continues to help them with their rebuild. If Davis/Cousins goes down in the 2018-19 season, if they strike out on signing any big names in the 2019 offseason, and/or if Davis walks when is a free agent, those picks could be pretty valuable.
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2017
  13. Iced Espresso

    Iced Espresso Well-Known Member

    I'd fire any GM who gave up 3 first round picks for taking on 32 million in bad salary, to save themselves 3 years of salary later.
    itzcoatl and 206Fan like this.
  14. 206Fan

    206Fan Well-Known Member

    Can't see NOP doing that. Holiday is on a horrific contract, but they have a better chance resigning Cousins with Holiday+Moore+Hill than ZBo+Hill.

    If anything, maybe Holiday+1st round pick for Hill+ZBo? I wouldn't do that though.
  15. twslam07

    twslam07 Well-Known Member

    It's not about saving money, it's about freeing up money for them to go and spend it on players who would help Cousins/Davis get over the hump. Looking back on it, three 1st rounders is pretty hefty. I think two is a little more realistic.

    And how is it saving money 3 years later? They would be making this trade in the 2018 offseason or at the trade deadline of the 2018-19 season, and it would give them cap space for the 2019 offseason. How is that 3 years?
  16. twslam07

    twslam07 Well-Known Member

    This deal would not happen until after Cousins is resigned (if he resigns).

    If they sign Cousins to a long term deal, they make a move like this (maybe take it down to two 1st rounders instead of three) to give them a shot at signing a legit star in the 2019 offsesaon to go alongside Cousins/Davis.
  17. kingsfan1984

    kingsfan1984 Well-Known Member

    We should trade Hill, Temple and Zach to Cleveland for Tristan Thomspon and the New Jersey pick

    Why for Cleveland: 2 veteran 3 and D perimeter players that fit well with Lebron and can handle the ball to take pressure off him. ZBo gives a scoring punch off the bench in situations. Allows them to dump the albatross of Thompsons contract.

    Why for Sacramento: Glut of Veterans taking mins away from youth. If going to carry vets that take up the salary cap can still do that and get some asset in return with the shinny Nets pick.
  18. Section 101

    Section 101 Well-Known Member

    Salaries only about 30 million off to work.
  19. upinsmoke

    upinsmoke Well-Known Member

  20. OptimusRhyme

    OptimusRhyme Jive Turkey Contributor

    A cuple players I like that are possibly obtainable.. Julius Randle (with Kuzma & Nance JR rolling I can see them trading him) .. Glenn Robinson 3 would add some athleticism and shooting to the three for us. Bojan Bogdonovic has been playing great for the Pacers so I think they would definitely think about offers for GR3.. Maybe Take George Hill back? Give us GR3 and a pick?

    Jordan Bell would be dope but I'm not sure if they'd give him up.
  21. Gguod

    Gguod Member

    No to Randle. Non shooting fours have no value in todays Nba.
  22. Iced Espresso

    Iced Espresso Well-Known Member

    Well Randolph & Hill have to be paid this year & next. So there is two seasons, on the third is when They'd save money being out of the Holiday contract.

    His 5th year is a PO, which looks like a sure bet to me to have him want to accept it.

    So they'd save 3 years of salary commitment.
  23. CelticsFan

    CelticsFan Active Member

    Holiday has played about 20 games on his new contract, no way the same management that gave him that contact unloads him with a bunch of first to get out of the contract. They would be admitting to a major mistake.

    BTW besides Holidays 3pt shooting he's averaging higher numbers then most of his career averages. Holiday has been with NO for a little while now, I have got to imagine they new exactly what they were getting when they signed him
  24. twslam07

    twslam07 Well-Known Member

    Ah so that's the problem. The trade would not be happening this year so counting the salary this year doesn't make sense. It would be happening in the 2018 offseason after the Pelican resign Cousins (if successful).
  25. twslam07

    twslam07 Well-Known Member

    Nobody here is saying to trade him this season. The trade would be a year after the deal was given (2018 offseason).

    Holiday's contract had more to do with fear than how they actually valued him. They didn't have the ability to sign any free agents that summer and Holiday was an unrestricted FA. If they let him walk, then it gives Cousins more incentive to walk when his contract is up as they wouldn't be as competitive. However, if they are successful at resigning Cousins, moving Holiday to add a Leonard, Butler, Thompson, Irving, etc. to Cousins & Davis is something I think both of those players would be okay with.

    They have the ability to build something special. It'd be a shame if they didn't give it a real chance.

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