I disagree. Coach J knows a lot about rotations, more than anyone on this forum by a miles. Monday morning quarterbacking at its finest.
The Kings have two big problems. One is that they only play defense some of the time. Two is that they have one all-star and a bunch of journeymen players. Talented teams abound in the NBA, and it is just really hard to compete against them. We get beat on plays all the time by superior athletes. The Kings should watch the second half of last night's game many times and relish how defense, confidence, and getting up and down the floor wins games.
The Kings have two big problems. One is that they only play defense some of the time. Two is that they have one all-star and a bunch of journeymen players. Talented teams abound in the NBA, and it is just really hard to compete against them. We get beat on plays all the time by superior athletes. The Kings should watch the second half of last night's game many times and relish how defense, confidence, and getting up and down the floor wins games.
Eh. I think Joerger is a good coach, but with that being said, his rotations are terrible.
They're a complete mess. You put WCS in the dog house, but sometimes you don't. You give him minutes in the 1st half with the bench unit, but sometimes he never sees the floor in the 2nd half. You let Ben lead your bench, and then you decide not to. Then you decide to bench him for 3 games....and out of the blue, start him. You play Casspi inconsistent minutes, then bench him. 5 games later, you give him minutes again.
His rotations suck right now.
I agree with everything else you said, but his rotations are bad. I guess he's still experimenting, so I'll give him a pass...for now. (for his sucky rotations)
They're a complete mess. You put WCS in the dog house, but sometimes you don't. You give him minutes in the 1st half with the bench unit, but sometimes he never sees the floor in the 2nd half. You let Ben lead your bench, and then you decide not to. Then you decide to bench him for 3 games....and out of the blue, start him. You play Casspi inconsistent minutes, then bench him. 5 games later, you give him minutes again.
His rotations suck right now.
I agree with everything else you said, but his rotations are bad. I guess he's still experimenting, so I'll give him a pass...for now. (for his sucky rotations)
There's a lot of confusion and differing opinions amongst Kings Fans, but I wouldn;t have thought that the obvious coaching (substitution) mistakes would be one of them.
You just cannot go from DNP-CD for multiple games to the starting position without it being an indictment of your coaching.
And what he did to Omri proved his lack of knowledge of the players on this team (DNPs 9 out of the first 15 games, then finally realizing the guy is one of your top 7 players).
Joerger's bullheadedness on starting Afflalo and Kosta is indefensible.
His "reason" not to start his obvious best SG (Temple) is "because he likes/needs the flexibility he brings off the bench.
Let's examine that statement for a second, shall we?
Temple is now an undeniably better 3-pt shooter AND defender than Afflalo (who only scores well in the post, the same place where 2 of the starters work).
And Joerger's justification to not start him is that he needs Temple vs the other team's backups more than against their starters (who have been lighting us up and costing games with big deficits)....
What coach uses that irrational of reason and gets away with it (to the reporter squad and the fanbase)?
What coach dodges starting lineup questions by blaming the players? (newsflash - the point of lineup questions is that you, the coach, have the wrong players in, so blaming the players is blaming yourself!)
The "reporters" for the Kings are clearly scared of Joerger.
It's not their job to worry about their reputations or how the coach "zings" them when being questioned - it's their job to use their access to ask the questions that their customer base wants answered, and if he dodges the question or answers something unsupportable, it's their job to ask again (either that night or the next) and ask again until he says something reasonable.
You just cannot go from DNP-CD for multiple games to the starting position without it being an indictment of your coaching.
And what he did to Omri proved his lack of knowledge of the players on this team (DNPs 9 out of the first 15 games, then finally realizing the guy is one of your top 7 players).
Joerger's bullheadedness on starting Afflalo and Kosta is indefensible.
His "reason" not to start his obvious best SG (Temple) is "because he likes/needs the flexibility he brings off the bench.
Let's examine that statement for a second, shall we?
Temple is now an undeniably better 3-pt shooter AND defender than Afflalo (who only scores well in the post, the same place where 2 of the starters work).
And Joerger's justification to not start him is that he needs Temple vs the other team's backups more than against their starters (who have been lighting us up and costing games with big deficits)....
What coach uses that irrational of reason and gets away with it (to the reporter squad and the fanbase)?
What coach dodges starting lineup questions by blaming the players? (newsflash - the point of lineup questions is that you, the coach, have the wrong players in, so blaming the players is blaming yourself!)
The "reporters" for the Kings are clearly scared of Joerger.
It's not their job to worry about their reputations or how the coach "zings" them when being questioned - it's their job to use their access to ask the questions that their customer base wants answered, and if he dodges the question or answers something unsupportable, it's their job to ask again (either that night or the next) and ask again until he says something reasonable.
There's a lot of confusion and differing opinions amongst Kings Fans, but I wouldn;t have thought that the obvious coaching (substitution) mistakes would be one of them.
You just cannot go from DNP-CD for multiple games to the starting position without it being an indictment of your coaching.
And what he did to Omri proved his lack of knowledge of the players on this team (DNPs 9 out of the first 15 games, then finally realizing the guy is one of your top 7 players).
Joerger's bullheadedness on starting Afflalo and Kosta is indefensible.
His "reason" not to start his obvious best SG (Temple) is "because he likes/needs the flexibility he brings off the bench.
Let's examine that statement for a second, shall we?
Temple is now an undeniably better 3-pt shooter AND defender than Afflalo (who only scores well in the post, the same place where 2 of the starters work).
And Joerger's justification to not start him is that he needs Temple vs the other team's backups more than against their starters (who have been lighting us up and costing games with big deficits)....
What coach uses that irrational of reason and gets away with it (to the reporter squad and the fanbase)?
What coach dodges starting lineup questions by blaming the players? (newsflash - the point of lineup questions is that you, the coach, have the wrong players in, so blaming the players is blaming yourself!)
The "reporters" for the Kings are clearly scared of Joerger.
It's not their job to worry about their reputations or how the coach "zings" them when being questioned - it's their job to use their access to ask the questions that their customer base wants answered, and if he dodges the question or answers something unsupportable, it's their job to ask again (either that night or the next) and ask again until he says something reasonable.
You just cannot go from DNP-CD for multiple games to the starting position without it being an indictment of your coaching.
And what he did to Omri proved his lack of knowledge of the players on this team (DNPs 9 out of the first 15 games, then finally realizing the guy is one of your top 7 players).
Joerger's bullheadedness on starting Afflalo and Kosta is indefensible.
His "reason" not to start his obvious best SG (Temple) is "because he likes/needs the flexibility he brings off the bench.
Let's examine that statement for a second, shall we?
Temple is now an undeniably better 3-pt shooter AND defender than Afflalo (who only scores well in the post, the same place where 2 of the starters work).
And Joerger's justification to not start him is that he needs Temple vs the other team's backups more than against their starters (who have been lighting us up and costing games with big deficits)....
What coach uses that irrational of reason and gets away with it (to the reporter squad and the fanbase)?
What coach dodges starting lineup questions by blaming the players? (newsflash - the point of lineup questions is that you, the coach, have the wrong players in, so blaming the players is blaming yourself!)
The "reporters" for the Kings are clearly scared of Joerger.
It's not their job to worry about their reputations or how the coach "zings" them when being questioned - it's their job to use their access to ask the questions that their customer base wants answered, and if he dodges the question or answers something unsupportable, it's their job to ask again (either that night or the next) and ask again until he says something reasonable.
There's a lot of confusion and differing opinions amongst Kings Fans, but I wouldn;t have thought that the obvious coaching (substitution) mistakes would be one of them.
You just cannot go from DNP-CD for multiple games to the starting position without it being an indictment of your coaching.
And what he did to Omri proved his lack of knowledge of the players on this team (DNPs 9 out of the first 15 games, then finally realizing the guy is one of your top 7 players).
Joerger's bullheadedness on starting Afflalo and Kosta is indefensible.
His "reason" not to start his obvious best SG (Temple) is "because he likes/needs the flexibility he brings off the bench.
Let's examine that statement for a second, shall we?
Temple is now an undeniably better 3-pt shooter AND defender than Afflalo (who only scores well in the post, the same place where 2 of the starters work).
And Joerger's justification to not start him is that he needs Temple vs the other team's backups more than against their starters (who have been lighting us up and costing games with big deficits)....
What coach uses that irrational of reason and gets away with it (to the reporter squad and the fanbase)?
What coach dodges starting lineup questions by blaming the players? (newsflash - the point of lineup questions is that you, the coach, have the wrong players in, so blaming the players is blaming yourself!)
The "reporters" for the Kings are clearly scared of Joerger.
It's not their job to worry about their reputations or how the coach "zings" them when being questioned - it's their job to use their access to ask the questions that their customer base wants answered, and if he dodges the question or answers something unsupportable, it's their job to ask again (either that night or the next) and ask again until he says something reasonable.
You just cannot go from DNP-CD for multiple games to the starting position without it being an indictment of your coaching.
And what he did to Omri proved his lack of knowledge of the players on this team (DNPs 9 out of the first 15 games, then finally realizing the guy is one of your top 7 players).
Joerger's bullheadedness on starting Afflalo and Kosta is indefensible.
His "reason" not to start his obvious best SG (Temple) is "because he likes/needs the flexibility he brings off the bench.
Let's examine that statement for a second, shall we?
Temple is now an undeniably better 3-pt shooter AND defender than Afflalo (who only scores well in the post, the same place where 2 of the starters work).
And Joerger's justification to not start him is that he needs Temple vs the other team's backups more than against their starters (who have been lighting us up and costing games with big deficits)....
What coach uses that irrational of reason and gets away with it (to the reporter squad and the fanbase)?
What coach dodges starting lineup questions by blaming the players? (newsflash - the point of lineup questions is that you, the coach, have the wrong players in, so blaming the players is blaming yourself!)
The "reporters" for the Kings are clearly scared of Joerger.
It's not their job to worry about their reputations or how the coach "zings" them when being questioned - it's their job to use their access to ask the questions that their customer base wants answered, and if he dodges the question or answers something unsupportable, it's their job to ask again (either that night or the next) and ask again until he says something reasonable.
I mean, another way to look at it. I assume that everyone holds Popovich as one of the standards for coaches. What do you think he would say if someone asked him why he's playing certain rotations or players?
Another thought on Temple. Joerger has said why he likes to bring Temple off the bench. I'd also worry about him losing his effectiveness if he played 30+ minutes. He expends a lot of energy on the defensive side. Would he be able to keep it up for longer minutes. I do know I'd worry quite a bit about our bench holding together if he started. As it is now, our bench has cost us numerous leads over and over.
Another thought on Temple. Joerger has said why he likes to bring Temple off the bench. I'd also worry about him losing his effectiveness if he played 30+ minutes. He expends a lot of energy on the defensive side. Would he be able to keep it up for longer minutes. I do know I'd worry quite a bit about our bench holding together if he started. As it is now, our bench has cost us numerous leads over and over.
S
The culture is... letting the opponents best player go off on the Kings to start the first quarter feel good about themselves in the game. Then bring in temple and expect him to get things back on track... ever single game. Same old crap. Coach is a joke. There's no good excuse at this point not to play ur best players at the start... considering how we have been starting games all year
Was looking at the OKC roster for possible trade fits and noticed Enes Kanter's minutes. He only plays 19 minutes per game, yet is their 4th leading scorer per game and is their 2nd highest paid player. I think a case can be made that he is one of their best 5 players, easily one of their best. Yet he only plays 19 minutes.
Kanter is their sixth man. I don't see them moving him for a half year rental of Gay. Payne would be the likely target with OKC and with another player or two thrown in to balance salaries. Ideally Morrow and Nick Collison as they are ending contracts and not Abrines and/or Singler who have three years left on their deals.
He has a lot better "working piece" at the shooting guard in Garrett Temple, but refuses to start him (as of yet).
The problem is, is that the starting five with KK and Afflalo (recently Ben) keeps putting the Kings in a hole early, that they can't dig out of.
If he refuses to bench KK, for a lack of suitable big man to start, how about starting a very capable Temple at shooting guard and get consistent energy and defense from the opening tip!
The problem is, is that the starting five with KK and Afflalo (recently Ben) keeps putting the Kings in a hole early, that they can't dig out of.
If he refuses to bench KK, for a lack of suitable big man to start, how about starting a very capable Temple at shooting guard and get consistent energy and defense from the opening tip!
Salary matching in a Gay/Payne deal looks to be extremely difficult. Since Gay makes $13.33M and Payne only makes $2.11M, there's a big gap there. OKC can actually absorb about $7.27M in a trade because they are under the cap, but we run into difficulties in taking back "enough stuff" to get to that value.
A couple of points:
1) Making the trade much much larger (e.g. OKC sending $30M to get $23M back) is probably not feasible. The only players the Thunder have with large salaries are Westbrook (not getting traded in a Rudy deal, obviously) and Kanter. As you've said here, Kanter is likely not on the table either. If he were on the table, then something like Gay+Koufos for Payne+Kanter would work salarywise. But aside from the Thunder putting Kanter on the table in a deal like that, there's really no way to just keep adding salary until it works.
2) Which leaves us with the option of taking back extra contracts. We could take back, say, Payne+Morrow+Collison. That would work (and we could design other trades like that), but we would have to cut two players to do it. I simply don't see two "cuttable" players on this roster, at least not before the trade deadline passes. The only guy that seems close to cuttable is Lawson - and that ONLY if we trade for a (healthy) PG. So unless we create a roster spot with a different trade, we probably can't afford to take back more than one extra player...and even then wouldn't it be preferable, if possible, to include Lawson in the trade?
So what if we try Lawson+Gay for Payne+?? Our guys make $14.13M, so we'd have to get back at least $6.86M, or $4.75M on top of Payne. Kyle Singler makes $4.84M, so he's the perfect size. Also, he backs up the 3 spot which we obviously thin out by trading Gay.
Basically, in a trade like this, Lawson+Gay for Payne+Singler is a match made in heaven salarywise (and maybe the only real good match - Abrines would also work but is more expensive to us). But if we love Payne, we can look at Singler's money as being a small surcharge for Payne's contract, bringing him up to about $7M a year instead of his super cheap actual value. And, on top of that, the Payne Salary Surcharge could be dealt away in a future deal, so it's possible we even get salary-matching value out of it.
A couple of points:
1) Making the trade much much larger (e.g. OKC sending $30M to get $23M back) is probably not feasible. The only players the Thunder have with large salaries are Westbrook (not getting traded in a Rudy deal, obviously) and Kanter. As you've said here, Kanter is likely not on the table either. If he were on the table, then something like Gay+Koufos for Payne+Kanter would work salarywise. But aside from the Thunder putting Kanter on the table in a deal like that, there's really no way to just keep adding salary until it works.
2) Which leaves us with the option of taking back extra contracts. We could take back, say, Payne+Morrow+Collison. That would work (and we could design other trades like that), but we would have to cut two players to do it. I simply don't see two "cuttable" players on this roster, at least not before the trade deadline passes. The only guy that seems close to cuttable is Lawson - and that ONLY if we trade for a (healthy) PG. So unless we create a roster spot with a different trade, we probably can't afford to take back more than one extra player...and even then wouldn't it be preferable, if possible, to include Lawson in the trade?
So what if we try Lawson+Gay for Payne+?? Our guys make $14.13M, so we'd have to get back at least $6.86M, or $4.75M on top of Payne. Kyle Singler makes $4.84M, so he's the perfect size. Also, he backs up the 3 spot which we obviously thin out by trading Gay.
Basically, in a trade like this, Lawson+Gay for Payne+Singler is a match made in heaven salarywise (and maybe the only real good match - Abrines would also work but is more expensive to us). But if we love Payne, we can look at Singler's money as being a small surcharge for Payne's contract, bringing him up to about $7M a year instead of his super cheap actual value. And, on top of that, the Payne Salary Surcharge could be dealt away in a future deal, so it's possible we even get salary-matching value out of it.
NO matter if he starts Temple or brings him off the bench, it won't change the fact, that Temple is our only wing player capable of playing good to great defense while knocking down open shots consistently, our second and third best perimeter defenders are DC and Lawson and KK is one of our best defenders, even though he is a big and playing him strictly as a backup for Cuz means we are playing inferior defenders over him. Joergers roster has a lot of holes to patch. It's not his fault, that Vlade assembled this type of roster. He can only coach what's there and he is doing a solid job - not great, but solid. A missed layup in crunchtime (boy oh boy Cuz....), a missed Rudy mid range jumpshot, which he normally makes at 70%, a few mental mistakes, a few forced shots, the fact, that we consistently give up too many long rebounds for open 3's - that's how we lose games.
Every losing year it's the coach, who gets blamed, like we suddenly assembled a playoff caliber roster and are underperforming, because of terrible coaching. Even Malone, who gets glorified beyond believe around here, was called out for bad coaching during his tenure and a lot of people were grinding an axe with him, before he sadly got fired. To some extent I understand the frustration towards Karl, but this year? Our biggest FA signing was Afflalo......maybe we should let that sink in a bit guys.
Every losing year it's the coach, who gets blamed, like we suddenly assembled a playoff caliber roster and are underperforming, because of terrible coaching. Even Malone, who gets glorified beyond believe around here, was called out for bad coaching during his tenure and a lot of people were grinding an axe with him, before he sadly got fired. To some extent I understand the frustration towards Karl, but this year? Our biggest FA signing was Afflalo......maybe we should let that sink in a bit guys.
Because before Capt informed me I figured they could trade for extra players and waive them making it a very simple transaction for the Kings.
I wouldn't be opposed to keeping Morrow (he's a free agent after this season though) but it would mean waiving someone else. Ben? Barnes? With Barnes it would mean eating his salary (and cap figure) for next year.
I wouldn't be opposed to keeping Morrow (he's a free agent after this season though) but it would mean waiving someone else. Ben? Barnes? With Barnes it would mean eating his salary (and cap figure) for next year.
No, Karl was not.
Joerger came in saying Step 1 was a culture change. We are competing every night, and he and Boogie are on the same page. That's enough at the moment and a wildly better spot to be in than having the coach and team at each other's throats like last year. This is finally headed toward solid and professional.
Joerger came in saying Step 1 was a culture change. We are competing every night, and he and Boogie are on the same page. That's enough at the moment and a wildly better spot to be in than having the coach and team at each other's throats like last year. This is finally headed toward solid and professional.
Anyone else concerned about the alarming amount of 3s this team is allowing?
We've allowed 28.8 3pt attempts per game. This is good for 6th worse in the NBA.
We've also allowed 37.9% from 3pt. This is good for 4th worse in the NBA.
This was a problem with Joeger's Grizzlies from last year too.
They were 3rd most in 3pt attempts per game and 9th in 3pt%.
We've allowed 28.8 3pt attempts per game. This is good for 6th worse in the NBA.
We've also allowed 37.9% from 3pt. This is good for 4th worse in the NBA.
This was a problem with Joeger's Grizzlies from last year too.
They were 3rd most in 3pt attempts per game and 9th in 3pt%.
S
Dave doesn't deserve to win because he tries to lose.... this isn't a contender team... and we need every advantage we can get... Dave Joerger is all about hurting every chance we have of winning as far as what the coach can control...
He just blames the players , or claims "bad shooting for every loss .... he straight up said he couldn't do anything to help this team be better...
thats about all i needed to hear. Horrible leadership right there... Cousins can even take that blame some nights when he goes for un godly numbers, and seriously gave it everything. Dave can check his pride and accept his personnal decisions, rotations and just about everything else he does is horrible .
He just blames the players , or claims "bad shooting for every loss .... he straight up said he couldn't do anything to help this team be better...
thats about all i needed to hear. Horrible leadership right there... Cousins can even take that blame some nights when he goes for un godly numbers, and seriously gave it everything. Dave can check his pride and accept his personnal decisions, rotations and just about everything else he does is horrible .