Collison + #8 for #5?

[funkykingston]

Obviously this is dependent on some resolution or further understanding of the domestic violence charge against Collison before the draft, but if (and I certainly hope it's the case) this isn't as bad as it seems then DC represents probably the best chip for moving up a few spots.

It's also a moot point if Thibodeau really wants Kris Dunn but if he's not completely sold then DC would provide a really nice compliment to Rubio and the T-Wolves could still draft a SG or PF at #8.

For the Kings it would mean getting the PG of the future if Dunn is there (as I expect he will be) at #5.

It also opens up about $4.45 million more in caproom (Collison's contract minus the difference in the rookie scale between pick 5 and pick 8).

In that situation I think you have to re-sign Rondo and let Dunn develop so say $14.5 million per on a 3 year deal. I'd prefer 2, Rondo probably wants 4 so that's a decent compromise.

Cousins/Koufos
Cauley-Stein
Gay/Casspi
McLemore/Belinelli
Rondo/Dunn

The Kings would still have $18 million to spend in free agency and potentially Rudy Gay to dangle as trade bait.

I'd love Bazemore as the free agency target but I think Courtney Lee is a more realistic target and will likely command 9-10 million leaving $8 million more and the room exception as well as what Gay could potentially bring back. It's not a huge step forward for the roster (well unless they land Bazemore - then you'd potentially have a monster defensive backcourt when Dunn matures) but some solid steps for next season and possibly a star PG to groom behind Rondo for a year or two before taking over.

 

[Dime Dropper]

I really don't think Dunn gets past Minny at 5, especially with Rubio saying he wants to move on unless they make the POs next year (if that wasn't mistranslated).

A core of Dunn/Wiggins/KAT is ridiculous, not to mention other young talent like LaVine, Rubio, Muhammed, and Dieng. No reason that the Wolves can't go on to become as good as the Thunder in a couple of seasons.

I hope I'm wrong, but I think any hope of Dunn falling to 8 is misplaced (not that OP suggests this will happen). I can't see it happening realistically in any scenario.

 

[funkykingston]

I really don't think Dunn gets past Minny at 5, especially with Rubio saying he wants to move on unless they make the POs next year (if that wasn't mistranslated).

A core of Dunn/Wiggins/KAT is ridiculous, not to mention other young talent like LaVine, Rubio, Muhammed, and Dieng. No reason that the Wolves can't go on to become as good as the Thunder in a couple of seasons.

I hope I'm wrong, but I think any hope of Dunn falling to 8 is misplaced (not that OP suggests this will happen). I can't see it happening realistically in any scenario.

Yeah, I don't see him getting past Minny and even if he did I think New Orleans would likely grab him.

The Celtics and Suns wouldn't have any interest in Collison and I don't think either of them would trade their pick for Rudy Gay either. So the only realistic way for the Kings to land Dunn would be a deal with Minnesota. But again, if Thibs wants Dunn he'll just stay put and grab him.

And unfortunately I don't see the Kings landing a difference maker/potential star with the 8th pick unless Chriss is on the board and they take a big gamble on him. So if they can't move up to get Dunn then the focus needs to be on getting a solid player.

I'm not high on Jamal Murray or Jaylen Brown at all so maybe a trade down to get Baldwin and/or Luwawu if they can't get Dunn.

One thing I really don't want to see is the team trade the pick for a veteran. The type of player that you'd get back for the 8th pick in a draft like this wouldn't be of much value.

 

[twslam07]

An expiring Collison is not enough to move up 3 spots especially when that team is not looking for that final piece to get over the hump.

 

[funkykingston]

An expiring Collison is not enough to move up 3 spots especially when that team is not looking for that final piece to get over the hump.

Maybe, maybe not. The Spurs got the #15 pick (that they used on Kawhi) a second rounder and the rights to a European big for an expiring George Hill.

Now you can argue that Hill was 4 years younger at that time than Collison is now or that he's a better defender but Collison put up equal or better numbers across the board other than rebounding. To be realistic, the only way the Wolves would bite on such a deal would be if (1) they didn't love Dunn (2) a guy they did like was still there at 8 and (3) Thibs is prepared to go forward with Rubio as the starting PG in which case Collison is a great backup, sixth man and spot starter.

The problem is that I think they'll love Dunn, especially his size and potential on defense. Dunn/Wiggins/Towns would be a REALLY nice core. But they are pretty short on shooting and Dunn won't help that, at least not right away and possibly not ever depending on whether he can get consistent with his shot. So there's the outside chance that what Thibs will want most is shooting, figuring that the team already has enough defensive potential that his scheme will unlock. In that case, the Kings would have to hope that Hield or (more likely) Murray dropped to them and that he was the guy the Wolves want. Collison isn't a fantastic trade chip but if a team could get him as a veteran backup AND still get the player they have targeted in the draft then it's a no brainer for them.

I think a more likely scenario is trading Collison (possibly in a package deal) to the Jazz who really saw the value of a strong backup PG this season when Exum went down. Plus with Exum's size, they can share the backcourt at times, adding playmaking and scoring punch.

 

[Bricklayer]

Collison is a good/solid NBA PG. That's giving up a lot of material to take a blind shot on a kid 3 picks earlier.

 

[funkykingston]

Collison is a good/solid NBA PG. That's giving up a lot of material to take a blind shot on a kid 3 picks earlier.

To me either the Kings let Rondo walk and Collison be the starter or they re-sign Rondo and Collison should be traded to fix other holes. No sense in having one of your best players be at 15 mpg backup. At least I'm assuming that Joerger wouldn't run out a lot of Collison/Rondo backcourts.

And the hole this could potentially fill is 2nd star to pair with Cousins.

 

[Gilles]

Kris Dunn was scoring just under 20 points per 40 minutes on only decent efficiency at .541TS% in his 22 y.o. season. He's not going to become 2nd option in the NBA.

 

[bajaden]

An expiring Collison is not enough to move up 3 spots especially when that team is not looking for that final piece to get over the hump.

Actually, Minny is looking for that final piece to get over the hump. Now if they conclude that the piece is Dunn, then it's a moot point. I'm not completely sold on the idea that Minny wants a PG. I get that Tib's has seemed to be running cold on Rubio, and said player has mentioned moving on after the season if they don't make the playoffs. However, Rubio is very popular in Minny, and with his teammates. I think they would like to at least go one more season with him and Tib's to see what happens. What Minny really needs is consistent perimeter shooting, which is why I think they'll take either Murray or Hield.

I still think there's a chance that Dunn drops to us. Maybe that is wishful thinking on my part. The question is, do we take Brown if he's there? His potential is off the charts, and I amazed that people are willing to overlook Marquese Chriss flaws based on potential, but not do the same for Brown. Especially when Brown actually fills a need and Chriss doesn't.

 

[bajaden]

Kris Dunn was scoring just under 20 points per 40 minutes on only decent efficiency at .541TS% in his 22 y.o. season. He's not going to become 2nd option in the NBA.

Never say never! It's hard to project how good a player will become once in the NBA where they can spend as much time in the gym as they want. Curry improved dramatically after entering the NBA. Lillard improved after entering the NBA. C. J. McCollum improved after entering the NBA. Klay Thompson improved after entering the NBA. I could go on and on. Now none of that means Dunn will do the same, but it doesn't mean he won't either.

 

[bajaden]

To me either the Kings let Rondo walk and Collison be the starter or they re-sign Rondo and Collison should be traded to fix other holes. No sense in having one of your best players be at 15 mpg backup. At least I'm assuming that Joerger wouldn't run out a lot of Collison/Rondo backcourts.

And the hole this could potentially fill is 2nd star to pair with Cousins.

At the point of beating a dead horse to death in his afterlife, Rondo won't fit on the team as described by Joerger. If your looking for ball movement and player movement, then Rondo is not your guy. It's not a criticism of Rondo, just an admission of who he is as a player. All the Kings will need out of their PG position is a player that can bring the ball up the court in a timely fashion, make the proper entry pass, and then play off the ball. In other words, a Mike Bibby clone. Collison, if cleared of the charges, would certainly fill the bill. I feel confident that Dunn would as well. Personally, I don't think the Kings want Rondo back. I guess we'll see rather soon.

 

[Gilles]

Never say never! It's hard to project how good a player will become once in the NBA where they can spend as much time in the gym as they want. Curry improved dramatically after entering the NBA. Lillard improved after entering the NBA. C. J. McCollum improved after entering the NBA. Klay Thompson improved after entering the NBA. I could go on and on. Now none of that means Dunn will do the same, but it doesn't mean he won't either.

Lillard and Mccollum, granted it was against suspect defenses, put up around 30 points per 40 minutes on .630TS%. And Klay was putting in the basket 25 points per 40 minutes on good efficiency at his 21 y.o. season.

 

[bajaden]

Lillard and Mccollum, granted it was against suspect defenses, put up around 30 points per 40 minutes on .630TS%. And Klay was putting in the basket 25 points per 40 minutes on good efficiency at his 21 y.o. season.

Don't care about the stats. You know that! The question is, are they better players now than when they came into the NBA? What their stats were in college is in some cases meaningless. Who was their coach. How good a team did they play on. How many minutes did they play. Did they play in their natural position. (example, Corliss and Gerald Wallace both played center in college). Was Ben Howland their coach? So many different things can affect their stats in college. Of course the same thing can be true in the NBA as well, but it's not as prevalent.

I know everything seems to come down to stats with you, and I'm not against stats. But I go more on what my eyes tell me. So we'll just have to disagree. I'm not saying that Dunn will be as good as any of the players mentioned. I'm just saying I wouldn't make a blanket statement about his future. Do I personally think he'll be as good a player as Curry, or maybe Klay Thompson? No, I don't. But then there was no way on gods green earth that I thought Curry was going to be as good as he's become when he arrived. Ditto Thompson!

 

[funkykingston]

Actually, Minny is looking for that final piece to get over the hump. Now if they conclude that the piece is Dunn, then it's a moot point. I'm not completely sold on the idea that Minny wants a PG. I get that Tib's has seemed to be running cold on Rubio, and said player has mentioned moving on after the season if they don't make the playoffs. However, Rubio is very popular in Minny, and with his teammates. I think they would like to at least go one more season with him and Tib's to see what happens. What Minny really needs is consistent perimeter shooting, which is why I think they'll take either Murray or Hield.

Thibodeau may not be looking for a rookie at all. In his first year as coach of the Bulls he took them from a 41 win team to a 62 win team. And really the only addition was rookie Omer Asik who started 0 games, averaged 12 mpg and put up less than 3 points and 4 rebounds a night.

Point being - Thibs certainly seems like a win now guy. And in keeping with that mentality he's also not a coach that has traditionally played rookies a lot of minutes. A rookie PG is maybe the toughest player to bring along when trying to win games now. So I think it really comes down to what Thibodeau thinks about Rubio and his future as the starting PG for the Wolves. And while Dunn shows great promise as a defensive PG, Rubio is a very good defender right now. I could see Thibodeau drafting a shooter and/or trading down or trading the pick outright to get veteran help.

I still think there's a chance that Dunn drops to us. Maybe that is wishful thinking on my part. The question is, do we take Brown if he's there? His potential is off the charts, and I amazed that people are willing to overlook Marquese Chriss flaws based on potential, but not do the same for Brown. Especially when Brown actually fills a need and Chriss doesn't.

There are a bunch of freshman prospects that I'm just not very high on. Guys that I can squint and see the possibility of them being a star but who also have enough flaws in their game that I have serious concerns.

With Jamal Murray it's his size (I think he has to play the 2 in the NBA) and lack of burst.

With Jaylen Brown it's his poor outside shooting and lack of versatility. Right now his assets are basically his physical tools and his ability to attack the basket. He is weak from the perimeter, not a great ball handler, not a good passer and he seemed to float on both ends far too often for my liking. I'm a Cal grad and I want Brown to succeed but he's a gamble. Can he put it all together?

With Dejounte Murray it's his total lack of outside shooting.

With Chriss the reality is that the hype around him is based on the idea that he can be the new ideal PF type - a rim protector AND outside shooter who can also attack in transition. But right now that's just an idea. He's a good shooter for a big and he does have some highlight reel blocks but he's not great at either right now, struggles to defend his man and is just a very athletic big at the moment.

With Labissiere I'm just not convinced he has a passion for basketball. He's got some great tools and will undoubtedly look good in one-on-none workouts but you really can't point to anything he does well on the court right now.

With Ellenson it's the athleticism. Some team will think they have Kevin Love lite on their hands and he might live up to that. Their college numbers are pretty similar against a relatively similar level of competition but Love also really improved his body once in the NBA which I think was a big part of his success. For all of Ellenson's skill I'm not sure he's got the physical tools to succeed on the next level.

I'm still hoping that DraftExpress is right and Chriss goes #3 to Boston.

PHI - Simmons
LAL - Ingram
BOS - Chriss
PHX - Brown
MIN - Bender
NOP - Murray
DEN - Hield
SAC - Dunn

Would work out quite nicely.

 

[kingsboi]

I don't see Minnesota going for that, plus you let go of Collison and now you have no point guard on your roster except a rookie. The rest depends on if they want to retain Rondo and bring back Curry. It's tempting, but if you really feel Dunn will be a franchise type PG then you make an attempt to move up. I'd trust Vlade's judgment on talent whether he wants to stay pat or move up/down.

 

[funkykingston]

At the point of beating a dead horse to death in his afterlife, Rondo won't fit on the team as described by Joerger. If your looking for ball movement and player movement, then Rondo is not your guy. It's not a criticism of Rondo, just an admission of who he is as a player. All the Kings will need out of their PG position is a player that can bring the ball up the court in a timely fashion, make the proper entry pass, and then play off the ball. In other words, a Mike Bibby clone. Collison, if cleared of the charges, would certainly fill the bill. I feel confident that Dunn would as well. Personally, I don't think the Kings want Rondo back. I guess we'll see rather soon.

The two things that I like most about Joerger as a coach is (1) his command of X's and O's and (2) his adaptability. He's had to make due with a lot of different rosters and had to find ways to maximize the talent he had to work with in not just the NBA but in pretty much every minor league (IBA, CBA, D-League) that's been around. I seriously doubt that Memphis was his ideal roster but he found a way to make things work. Just like McHale saying that the Rockets offense was built around the roster he had. McHale said at one point that his ideal team would have two talented bigs who could score inside and protect the basket but that he had to work with what he had.

Point being, I think unless the Kings are sure they can get a better player in free agency, Rondo isn't necessarily out of their plans. Does he fit with what Joerger would ideally like to do? Nope. Could coach Joerger find a way to implement an offense that makes use of what Rondo does well and hides his deficiencies? I'm guessing yes.

To me an ideal offseason would be drafting Dunn, signing Bazemore, re-signing Curry & Acy and exploring trades for Rudy Gay. Gay in a sign-and-trade for Anderson works but does that improve the team?

Cousins/Koufos/???
Cauley-Stein/Acy/???
Gay/Casspi/???
Bazemore/McLemore/Belinelli
Collison/Curry/Dunn

or

Cousins/Koufos/???
Cauley-Stein/Anderson/Acy
Casspi/???/???
Bazemore/McLemore/Belinelli
Collison/Curry/Dunn

What are other realistic trades for Rudy?

I doubt Dunn is there at #8 and I very much doubt the Kings outbid Atlanta for Bazemore but that would be my ideal offseason.

That said, if the smartest course of action is re-signing Rondo then you find a way to make that work.

 

[Gilles]

Don't care about the stats. You know that! The question is, are they better players now than when they came into the NBA? What their stats were in college is in some cases meaningless. Who was their coach. How good a team did they play on. How many minutes did they play. Did they play in their natural position. (example, Corliss and Gerald Wallace both played center in college). Was Ben Howland their coach? So many different things can affect their stats in college. Of course the same thing can be true in the NBA as well, but it's not as prevalent.

I know everything seems to come down to stats with you, and I'm not against stats. But I go more on what my eyes tell me. So we'll just have to disagree. I'm not saying that Dunn will be as good as any of the players mentioned. I'm just saying I wouldn't make a blanket statement about his future. Do I personally think he'll be as good a player as Curry, or maybe Klay Thompson? No, I don't. But then there was no way on gods green earth that I thought Curry was going to be as good as he's become when he arrived. Ditto Thompson!

You can disregard the stats all you want, but there hasn't been a major NBA scorer in 1&done era, who averaged under 20 points per 40 by the age of 22. Ability to put up a lot of points without efficiency drop-off is a skill, and Dunn doesn't have it.

 

[Bricklayer]

Before I comment further here, was the plan to have the other team just absorb Darren's contract so we get that cap room back? Because if that were it its a more interesting proposition, assuming we had some sign that Rondo wanted to return. Be a way to return Rondo, draft a player for him to mentor, who plays D, and still have enough $$ left over to make a splash in FA with Anderson or whoever. An actual SG would be nice.

But if that's not the plan then you are taking a team with a limited stack of assets with which to improve, and blowing 2 of them on a kid who may not be ready to help. People say Minny is trying to find that piece to put them over the top, well we should be twice as interested as they are in that, because our clock is much further advanced.

 

[funkykingston]

Before I comment further here, was the plan to have the other team just absorb Darren's contract so we get that cap room back? Because if that were it its a more interesting proposition, assuming we had some sign that Rondo wanted to return. Be a way to return Rondo, draft a player for him to mentor, who plays D, and still have enough $$ left over to make a splash in FA with Anderson or whoever. An actual SG would be nice.

But if that's not the plan then you are taking a team with a limited stack of assets with which to improve, and blowing 2 of them on a kid who may not need to help. People say Minny is trying to find that piece to put them over the top, well we should be twice as interested as they are in that, because our clock is much further advanced.

That's part of the rationale for the deal, yes. The Kings have $28 million in cap room. Resigning Rondo (should they choose to do that) would eat up enough that the team would struggle to land a good SG in free agency. The Collison trade would open up $4.4 million more in caproom. So they could throw big money at Bazemore or whoever.

 

[ParniValjak]

At the point of beating a dead horse to death in his afterlife, Rondo won't fit on the team as described by Joerger. If your looking for ball movement and player movement, then Rondo is not your guy. It's not a criticism of Rondo, just an admission of who he is as a player. All the Kings will need out of their PG position is a player that can bring the ball up the court in a timely fashion, make the proper entry pass, and then play off the ball. In other words, a Mike Bibby clone. Collison, if cleared of the charges, would certainly fill the bill. I feel confident that Dunn would as well. Personally, I don't think the Kings want Rondo back. I guess we'll see rather soon.

Dunn himself is a ball dominant PG who is not the greatest of shooters at the moment. Not saying he won't improve at it but everything he has shown to date suggests he is closer to Rondo than he is to Collison or Bibbly clone. With that in mind, why would he fit in what Joerger has been saying so far but Rondo won't? If we are going by those standards then Baldwin with his shooting would be a much better fit as would Murray if you really wanted to play him as a PG (which I wouldn't).

I am not concerned about drafting the player that necessarily fits. I want us to draft a player who can clearly develop into a #2 option that can play with Cousins. I see Dunn as that player. His game style doesn't fit into the Princeton hints that Joerger dropped at his press conference. I think that comment is overblown because is subsequent interviews when asked what style we would be playing he said that he doesn't know until he knows what our roster looks like.

I like Dunn because IMHO, he is one player with the biggest potential or chance to develop into an all-star calibre player and he happens to play the position that is one of the hardest to fill. If going forward our 2 stars are a C and a PG we would have done a heck of a job.

On the trade proposal, I would do it but I cannot see Minny wanting to do the trade partly because they like Dunn themselves. Thibs would absolutely be salivating at the thought of Dunn as his PG of the future, thought granted, someone like Hield or Murray would fit nicely there as playing spacing the floor for KAT and Wiggins.

 

[twslam07]

Re

Actually, Minny is looking for that final piece to get over the hump. Now if they conclude that the piece is Dunn, then it's a moot point. I'm not completely sold on the idea that Minny wants a PG. I get that Tib's has seemed to be running cold on Rubio, and said player has mentioned moving on after the season if they don't make the playoffs. However, Rubio is very popular in Minny, and with his teammates. I think they would like to at least go one more season with him and Tib's to see what happens. What Minny really needs is consistent perimeter shooting, which is why I think they'll take either Murray or Hield.

I still think there's a chance that Dunn drops to us. Maybe that is wishful thinking on my part. The question is, do we take Brown if he's there? His potential is off the charts, and I amazed that people are willing to overlook Marquese Chriss flaws based on potential, but not do the same for Brown. Especially when Brown actually fills a need and Chriss doesn't.

Really? Since when? I didn't realize they were right there on the cusp of winning a championship which would cause them to overpay to get that final piece...that final expiring piece

 

[bajaden]

Re

Really? Since when? I didn't realize they were right there on the cusp of winning a championship which would cause them to overpay to get that final piece...that final expiring piece

Come on, were not talking about a championship. Were talking about becoming competitive in the west.To make the playoffs, and maybe do some damage. You know what I was talking about. Exactly who are you talking about overpaying? Rubio is still under contract for next season. If they were to bite on Collison, they would be absorbing the difference between his contract and the less money spent on the 8th pick. So not sure what your referring to. Personally, I think Minny makes the playoffs regardless of what they do, or who they draft.

 

[bajaden]

Dunn himself is a ball dominant PG who is not the greatest of shooters at the moment. Not saying he won't improve at it but everything he has shown to date suggests he is closer to Rondo than he is to Collison or Bibbly clone. With that in mind, why would he fit in what Joerger has been saying so far but Rondo won't? If we are going by those standards then Baldwin with his shooting would be a much better fit as would Murray if you really wanted to play him as a PG (which I wouldn't).

I am not concerned about drafting the player that necessarily fits. I want us to draft a player who can clearly develop into a #2 option that can play with Cousins. I see Dunn as that player. His game style doesn't fit into the Princeton hints that Joerger dropped at his press conference. I think that comment is overblown because is subsequent interviews when asked what style we would be playing he said that he doesn't know until he knows what our roster looks like.

I like Dunn because IMHO, he is one player with the biggest potential or chance to develop into an all-star calibre player and he happens to play the position that is one of the hardest to fill. If going forward our 2 stars are a C and a PG we would have done a heck of a job.

On the trade proposal, I would do it but I cannot see Minny wanting to do the trade partly because they like Dunn themselves. Thibs would absolutely be salivating at the thought of Dunn as his PG of the future, thought granted, someone like Hield or Murray would fit nicely there as playing spacing the floor for KAT and Wiggins.

I watched Dunn play a lot, and he's very good at playing off the ball. He did what he was asked to do at Providence, and since they only had two scorers on the team, Dunn and Bentil, Dunn had to shoulder a lot of the offensive load. As a result he had the ball in his hands a lot. But he's a very unselfish player, and coachable. Not sure I can say that about Rondo, who throws fits when asked to play any way but the way he wants to play. Personally, I'm tired of drama, and so I'm willing to say goodbye to Rondo. No drama from him last season because Karl let his do what ever he wanted. That may not be the case with Joerger. I'd just as soon not find out.

 

[Bricklayer]

I watched Dunn play a lot, and he's very good at playing off the ball. He did what he was asked to do at Providence, and since they only had two scorers on the team, Dunn and Bentil, Dunn had to shoulder a lot of the offensive load. As a result he had the ball in his hands a lot. But he's a very unselfish player, and coachable. Not sure I can say that about Rondo, who throws fits when asked to play any way but the way he wants to play. Personally, I'm tired of drama, and so I'm willing to say goodbye to Rondo. No drama from him last season because Karl let his do what ever he wanted. That may not be the case with Joerger. I'd just as soon not find out.

There's a difference between being coachable as a 20yr old numbnut kid, and being coachable as a 30yr old multiple time All Star/champion with 100 playoff games under your belt. In the first case maybe your coaches know better how your game should look. In the second case you damn well better know your game and have confidence in it, and if a coach doesn't get it, you need to explain it to him.

Sometime its the coach who's the stubborn ignoramus. Not infrequently actually.

 

[twslam07]

Come on, were not talking about a championship. Were talking about becoming competitive in the west.To make the playoffs, and maybe do some damage. You know what I was talking about. Exactly who are you talking about overpaying? Rubio is still under contract for next season. If they were to bite on Collison, they would be absorbing the difference between his contract and the less money spent on the 8th pick. So not sure what your referring to. Personally, I think Minny makes the playoffs regardless of what they do, or who they draft.

I'm the one who brought it up and I was referring to a championship contender. What's the point in getting a rental at the expense of a better long term prospect when your time table to be a competitor is later down the road?

Collison & 8 for 5 is a short sighted move and one they have no business making...

 

[Bricklayer]

I'm the one who brought it up and I was referring to a championship contender. What's the point in getting a rental at the expense of a better long term prospect when your time table to be a competitor is later down the road?

Collison & 8 for 5 is a short sighted move and one they have no business making...

They've been out of the playoffs even longer than we have and just broke open the vault on the most expensive coach on the market. I think we can be pretty sure they are going to start swinging into win now mode now. They've got kids stacked up to their ears.

 

[dude12]

This is similar to the other thread regarding Love. I just don't think this team is in position to deal multiple assets in exchange for a player. Quite frankly, I think at 8 they will get a very good bench piece that they can develop and if Vlade is as good as last year, he will bring a piece that we can develop. We don't HAVE to trade Collison.

We need to keep acquiring assets before we can trade multiple assets for a player....the Love proposals made way more sense than trading DC and 8 to go get Dunn. Too many holes still on this roster for a move like that.

 

[twslam07]

They've been out of the playoffs even longer than we have and just broke open the vault on the most expensive coach on the market. I think we can be pretty sure they are going to start swinging into win now mode now. They've got kids stacked up to their ears.

Illogical...

Seasons out of the playoffs or bringing in a new coach should not sabotage the future potential of this team. What is this need for them to make the playoffs right away? It's going to happen sooner or later. Their young guys are too talented. There's no need to sell off long term prospects for stop gaps in an effort to make a push next year while at the same time hamstringing their team's potential.

Their 3 most important players right now are 21, 21, & 20. Why are they trying to force it? Add another top 5 pick to that group this year (they really should take Dunn & eventually move Rubio) and move forward with a Dunn/LaVine/Wiggins/Towns core with Thibs as your head coach. Pawning off your picks for veterans doesn't make sense for a team who's core can barely drink alcohol legally. It's not time to make those types of moves because your core/stars are not at the level where you will be a serious competitor.

Allow the team to grow and continue to pick up assets along the way.

 

[Bricklayer]

That's not how it works twslam. These are not computer teams. They have aging owners who want to see a winner, long suffering fanbases desperate to cheer for something again, kids they don't want to spoil by letting them get used to losing, coaches trying to live up to their contracts who don't like to lose, etc.

Minny will be coming hard this year, you can almost bet on it. They've already got the best young core. Now they want to be OKC.

 

[twslam07]

That's not how it works twslam. These are not computer teams. They have aging owners who want to see a winner, long suffering fanbases desperate to cheer for something again, kids they don't want to spoil by letting them get used to losing, coaches trying to live up to their contracts who don't like to lose, etc.

Minny will be coming hard this year, you can almost bet on it. They've already got the best young core. Now they want to be OKC.

Hogwash. When you have a light at the end of the tunnel (Towns/Wiggins/LaVine/#5/Thibs), you do everything you can to turn that team into a championship contender. They will already be competitive next year. Adding Collison is not going dramatically change that fact.

If you don't think their fan base is excited about a Dunn/LaVine/Wiggins/Towns/Thibs core moving forward, I don't know what to tell you. The fans get it. They see the plan. The see the light at the end of the tunnel. They see that their future is bright. You don't have to do anything else right not other than making sure you don't do anything that could neuter that core's potential when it actually comes time for them to start competing for a championship.

And just so the record is straight. I never said the Wolves won't be competitive next year. I said what's the rush? They have players who can help them win now and that's fine. Let Thibs do his thing, win some ball games, & establish a winning culture. That's all good stuff. However, if you want to trade back in the draft potentially missing out on a player who could become a difference maker when it actually comes time to start competing for a championship, that is what I have a MAJOR problem with. Especially, when it is a low level/high end bench guard who could be gone in 1 year. For instance, what if Dunn turned out to be a Lowry/Wall caliber player or what if he turned out to be G. Hill/Collison but one who's prime coincides with your core? That's the important part here.

I see Collison as a player who will not be in their future when it comes time to compete so it essentially boils down to #5 for #8. Having said that, I have no problem with them adding guys like Collison to the roster to improve the team, establish a winning culture, etc. but not at the expense of a player who can help them when they need it most (which #5 could turn out to be).

The trade makes no sense for them, and I'd dare you to venture over to a Minnesota forum or even a neutral NBA forum and propose such a deal to see what the reaction will be.