Can we still Contend with this line up?
- Thread starter Pacboy
- Start date
No. In fact I can't even think of another major player with a record anything like Pejas. The closest thing would be the aging Cliff Robinson, a former 20pt scorer who is a longtime noted choker and playoff invisible man. But as far as I know he doesn't go away in the 4th quarter consistently (he may, I haven't followed his career that closely). Peja does it time and time and time again. At a certain point its fairly remarkable he even continues to be given the opportunity to. Based on performance, he could be on the old Jwill system, play three quarters and then have your backup come in and close up the game for you.
And its absolutely a titanic problem in that I cannot recall ANY championship team EVER having a star player who consistently disappears in the clutch, during the playoffs, when needed. I mean, that's an utterly ridiculous trait to have if you're susposed to be one of the leading players on your team. Its not even a good trait for a roleplayer. Here's the sad fact -- in the playoffs, in the 4th quarter, time to win, I would MUCH rather have a younger Robert Horry on the floor for my team than Peja Stojakovic. Every time. No comparison even. And I don't even like Robert Horry.
Against Bruce Bowen, ok. Well not ok, but at least maybe he took it from you rather than you just not having what it takes. But its a very scary thing as a Kings fan watching arguably your most talented player just fail time and time again, and never really seem to get better. And its not an intelligence thing. Peja's not dumb. Its a heart thing. Do you burn to win? Do you live for that moment of glory? Ray Allen has shown me he does. And then there's Peja and its just such a waste. He could be Reggie Milleresque if he had the fire. Hitting crazy improbable backbreaking shots from all over the court. But he's the tinman, and so maybe everybody just has to let the could of beens and would have beens go. Some people just burn. Some do not.
And its absolutely a titanic problem in that I cannot recall ANY championship team EVER having a star player who consistently disappears in the clutch, during the playoffs, when needed. I mean, that's an utterly ridiculous trait to have if you're susposed to be one of the leading players on your team. Its not even a good trait for a roleplayer. Here's the sad fact -- in the playoffs, in the 4th quarter, time to win, I would MUCH rather have a younger Robert Horry on the floor for my team than Peja Stojakovic. Every time. No comparison even. And I don't even like Robert Horry.
Against Bruce Bowen, ok. Well not ok, but at least maybe he took it from you rather than you just not having what it takes. But its a very scary thing as a Kings fan watching arguably your most talented player just fail time and time again, and never really seem to get better. And its not an intelligence thing. Peja's not dumb. Its a heart thing. Do you burn to win? Do you live for that moment of glory? Ray Allen has shown me he does. And then there's Peja and its just such a waste. He could be Reggie Milleresque if he had the fire. Hitting crazy improbable backbreaking shots from all over the court. But he's the tinman, and so maybe everybody just has to let the could of beens and would have beens go. Some people just burn. Some do not.
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I agree the answer is 'no'.
But if we accept that curently the Kings are a jump shooting team rather than say, a Detroit 'take it to the hoop' team then think that the lack of ability to compete is more about consistancy (or lack of it) over the 48 minutes.
Unfortunately i wasnt able to see the game, but i could tell from VF21's PBP that we had reason to be happy at halftime. It wasnt a different set of guys who appeared for the second half its just that the style of play (jump shooting offence and flimsy D) mean that when we dont find the net we're in trouble.
We may still prevail against Seattle (i havent given up yet), but when i think about the way we gave up a 17 point early lead it makes me wonder if teams like the Spurs, Suns, Pistons or Heat would have lost from that position. I suspect not.
Still, we're not out of it yet......Go Kings !!!!!!!!!
But if we accept that curently the Kings are a jump shooting team rather than say, a Detroit 'take it to the hoop' team then think that the lack of ability to compete is more about consistancy (or lack of it) over the 48 minutes.
Unfortunately i wasnt able to see the game, but i could tell from VF21's PBP that we had reason to be happy at halftime. It wasnt a different set of guys who appeared for the second half its just that the style of play (jump shooting offence and flimsy D) mean that when we dont find the net we're in trouble.
We may still prevail against Seattle (i havent given up yet), but when i think about the way we gave up a 17 point early lead it makes me wonder if teams like the Spurs, Suns, Pistons or Heat would have lost from that position. I suspect not.
Still, we're not out of it yet......Go Kings !!!!!!!!!
. None of them play D
What was different about this team before?
The rebounding, making other teams scrubs look like superstars, interior defense...these were all problems we had before the trade. Throw in Webb playing defense on one ankle and I don't see our major problems being helped.
Only thing I can see is if you want to blame Mike and Peja's poor play on the lack of passing ability we have right now - we've traded away our three best passers in a short span.
Trades are not the answer (only thing I would even consider is trading Cat 'cause he kills our passing, but can we get equal value?)
The guys we have need to step up:
- Brad: toughness and interior D
- Peja: not die in 4th quarters and committ to rebounding/playing help D
- Mike: stop taking horrible shots and realize that we need you to play POINT GAURD now that Vlade and Webb are gone, rediscover 4th quarter form
- Cat: learn to pass and let the game come within the flow
The rebounding, making other teams scrubs look like superstars, interior defense...these were all problems we had before the trade. Throw in Webb playing defense on one ankle and I don't see our major problems being helped.
Only thing I can see is if you want to blame Mike and Peja's poor play on the lack of passing ability we have right now - we've traded away our three best passers in a short span.
Trades are not the answer (only thing I would even consider is trading Cat 'cause he kills our passing, but can we get equal value?)
The guys we have need to step up:
- Brad: toughness and interior D
- Peja: not die in 4th quarters and committ to rebounding/playing help D
- Mike: stop taking horrible shots and realize that we need you to play POINT GAURD now that Vlade and Webb are gone, rediscover 4th quarter form
- Cat: learn to pass and let the game come within the flow
I think will be a much better team if we can get the team to practice together. I doubt will have the same team come next off-season, but if we were to, I think a year together, we could have a pretty good team. It's hard to piece-wise a playoff series victory when were not only fighting with the Sonics, the players are fighting with there roles which they are not used to.
At Bibby's position there aren't many good defenders. We can honestly deal with his problems. Problem is with Brad and Peja, there are many good defenders at the swing and the 4/5. Now, a center is probally the hardest position to get in the league, so I don't think Brad is really a question. Swing guys are a dime a dozen, Peja is definitely one of the best but we could definitely use a guy like Hughes, Artest, Battier or something of that sort that can D up the swing position if that means trading Peja than so be it. Defensive 4/5s are still a much "rarer" commodity arguably the best defensive PFs and Centers are the best at there respective position.
Best Defenders at the 4/5-
Yao
Shaq
Brand
Marion (he plays the 4)
Duncan
KG
Martin
Next group
Ratliff (Overpaid and injury prone)
Chandler (Could easily be in the first group)
Okafor (We can only wish)
Best Defenders at the 4/5-
Yao
Shaq
Brand
Marion (he plays the 4)
Duncan
KG
Martin
Next group
Ratliff (Overpaid and injury prone)
Chandler (Could easily be in the first group)
Okafor (We can only wish)
There is no reason to believe that with Webb the Kings wouldn't be in the hole that they are in now. Remember, the Kings only won 2 of the 8 games before the Webber trade. Also, how in the world would Webb have been able to defend and/or rebound against the front line of Seattle? Sure, maybe with Webb the Kings would have gotten out of the first round, but the level of play with him this year does not lead me to believe that they would have.
We are all dealing with speculation here...well, that and prior knowledge, and even that seems to be skewed a bit depending on theory you subscribe to. I could say that with our old team we would have made it to the WCF's and it would have the same validity as any statment you make to the contrary....and then we'll spend the whole summer arguing over who's speculation is more acurate, and we really don't want to do that, right?
Diabetic, before the "sudden-fall-from-grace," even with Mobley they were playing pretty good ball and I remember at 1 point we were 32-14 which I believe at the time was only 3 games behind the Suns and then injuries and other things happened. We have played 18-18 ball since then. Inconsistancy has been a definite thing, but if healthy we might have shown up better. Honestly Bibby hasn't been the same since the trade and shot below 40% for March and 43% in April and 36% in the playoffs while Peja for a while was playing better.
Hmmm...Dalem against Detroit arguably the best frontcourt defensively and rebounding in the league he's averaged 13 points and 13 rebounds a game with 2 blocked shots at 55% from the field and only 3 PFs per game in 39 minutes per game. So yeah he might be raw but if he plays anything like this or even 3/4ths of this I'd be impressed. I'm not saying he's a god send but he's an upgrade from what we have and I'm pretty sure some team will hand him a big contract. He's raw with TREMENDOUS upside.