Can SAR be a good coach?

#1
Can SAR be a good coach?
Brick doesn't seem to think so; others do.

I think there's no reason he can't be a good coach unless you subscribe to the idea that all NBA coaches should be former point guards. SAR is intelligent and thoughtful. Offensively (at least), he used to have a killer instinct. And, although we didn't see this during his Kings tenure, he was a good rebounder for his size and position throughout most of his career. We don't know if he has or can develop the necessary management skills, but that's rarely known before a former player gets a chance to coach. I would welcome his becoming a part of the Kings coaching staff - if given the opportunity. And, of course, so long as Reggie isn't against it for some reason.
 

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
#2
Can SAR be a good coach?
Brick doesn't seem to think so; others do.

I think there's no reason he can't be a good coach unless you subscribe to the idea that all NBA coaches should be former point guards. SAR is intelligent and thoughtful. Offensively (at least), he used to have a killer instinct. And, although we didn't see this during his Kings tenure, he was a good rebounder for his size and position throughout most of his career. We don't know if he has or can develop the necessary management skills, but that's rarely known before a former player gets a chance to coach. I would welcome his becoming a part of the Kings coaching staff - if given the opportunity. And, of course, so long as Reggie isn't against it for some reason.

a) SAR was never a particularly brainy player oncourt -- he had his game, and he played his game. You rarely saw him outthinking opponents.
b) I'm not sure where this killer instinct stuff came from -- SAR? One of the losingest major players in the history of the league?
c) he was never much of a rebounder for a big man. Maybe 1 good year in his career, several other average years. He was a good SF rebounder based on being bigger than everybody else. In any case he is one of the last people you would go to as a rebounding coach, if that's what that was about.


People think nice guy, or at least quiet guy = coach. If that were true we wouldn't have the one we do. Indeed Reef is such a flatline personality its hard to see him leading anybody anywhere. They also think great player = coach. And that's true even less of the time, even if Reef qualified. Players who think through the game = coaches. Ofttimes "saavy" bench players. Natural leaders can make coaches. One dimensional 2nd tier star players without personalities? Its the Peja fascination all over again. Those guys are just useful players. Not coaches. Not leaders. Not any of that. You never know for sure about anybody, but there are many many far better looking coaching candidates out there, even amongst the ranks of ex-Kings, let alone leaguewide. And there is no reason to reach that way for SAR. He meant nothing in particular to this franchise. Cannot be a bridge to the golden years, tell tales about winning, about the old crowds or battles or anything else. Its mere accident he ended up playing and retiring for us. If he were a great coaching candidate, sure. If he were a great old King full of Kingness from the good ole days, sure. But as is...why? He already earned $6 million last year for playing about 50 minutes. Will earn $12 milion the next couple for not playing at all. He's doing fine. And so are we. Nothing is owed here.
 
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#3
b) I'm not sure where this killer instinct stuff came from -- SAR? One of the losingest major players in the history of the league?
Really. And that's his fault that he was on losing teams? He was a really good player for most of his career. I used the term 'killer instinct' in the context of his offense, because he used to be relentless as a scorer.

c) he was never much of a rebounder for a big man. Maybe 1 good year in his career, several other average years. He was a good SF rebounder based on being bigger than everybody else. In any case he is one of the last people you would go to as a rebounding coach, if that's what that was about.
Actually, the guy averaged 9-10 rebounds per game for several years during his prime. That's ridiculous to infer that he was a lousy rebounder.

Reef is such a flatline personality its hard to see him leading anybody anywhere.
I somewhat agree with this observation, but it's also true that quiet leaders can be effective leaders. Have SAR's teammates ever considered him a leader? I don't actually know, so I'm asking.
 

bajaden

Hall of Famer
#4
Bricky has never liked SAR, or if he has, he's been reluctant to say so. Reef has always been a very good offensive player, and despite Bricky saying that he just had a bunch of spin moves, he actualy had a very good offensive arsenal. I watched him at Cal and admit that I'm biased about him. Was he a great rebounder? No! But he wasn't a bad rebounder either. I believe his career average is around 8 or 9 per game. I'll admit that most of his best years were early on.

All that being said, that doesn't mean he would be a good coach. Doesn't mean he would be a bad one either. I personally, don't see the harm in seeing if he can coach or not. As Bricky said, you never know. Being a nice guy doesn't make anyone a good player or a good coach, but If I had to choose between SAR and KT, thats an easy choice to make. I also like to think that in my imaginary world, being a good person, at some point gets rewarded.
 

Mr. S£im Citrus

Doryphore of KingsFans.com
Staff member
#5
b) I'm not sure where this killer instinct stuff came from -- SAR? One of the losingest major players in the history of the league?
Really. And that's his fault that he was on losing teams? He was a really good player for most of his career. I used the term 'killer instinct' in the context of his offense, because he used to be relentless as a scorer.
Well... Yeah.

Very good-to-great players can at least get their teams to the playoffs, even if they can't get them out of the first round. Hell, Rock even got us to the playoffs once. Abdur-Rahim played with Glenn Robinson and Jason Terry, and couldn't even get to the playoffs in the eastern conference.

Michael Redd is a great scorer, and I don't think that anybody would say that he had killer instinct, either.

c) he was never much of a rebounder for a big man. Maybe 1 good year in his career, several other average years. He was a good SF rebounder based on being bigger than everybody else. In any case he is one of the last people you would go to as a rebounding coach, if that's what that was about.
Actually, the guy averaged 9-10 rebounds per game for several years during his prime. That's ridiculous to infer that he was a lousy rebounder.
No, Bricklayer had it right. You need to recognize that he said that Abdur-Rahim was a good rebounder as a small forward. And Abdur-Rahim's prime years were played, guess where? That's right, at small forward. And no, Abdur-Rahim didn't average 9-10 rebounds for several years; in fact, he only averaged above eight rebounds four times in his whole career.

As power forwards go, Abdur-Rahim was a below-average rebounder.
 
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#6
Are we talking about him being a Head Coach, or a skill coach? I think he would be a good big man coach to teach how to be a low post player, low post foot work, getting position, etc. That's where I could see him excelling at.
 
#8
Brick, I'm with you. Based on his history & personality, I don't think this that SAR is the best candidate for a coaching position, unless there is something that we don't know.

Plus, it's a little late to integrate another assistant coach, no? Wouldn't that disrupt coaching operations/plans that are assuredly already laid out?

I could see him taking some front-office position involving community service or player development.
 
#9
Look, if we end up hiring him as a big man coach to pay him back for retiring early, that's fine by me--because it appears that we weren't going to get one otherwise (another example of Petrie making a move because things fell in his lap). He's better than nothing. That said, if in a year or two he moved on to bigger and better things and we still needed a big man coach and got someone perhaps more qualified, that'd be even better.
 
#10
And no, Abdur-Rahim didn't average 9-10 rebounds for several years; in fact, he only averaged above eight rebounds four times in his whole career. As power forwards go, Abdur-Rahim was a below-average rebounder.
So which one of us is looking at the wrong stats?
Based on
http://www.nba.com/playerfile/shareef_abdur-rahim/career_stats.html
in SAR's last 2 years with Vancouver he averaged 10.1 and 9.1 rebounds per game.
In his 2 1/2 years with Atlanta, he averaged 9.0, 8.4 and 9.3 rebounds per game.
We can get technical and throw out his last season with Atlanta - where he only played 65% of the season before going to Portland (and finished the last third of the season coming off the bench). But, regardless, these stats show something different than what you're suggesting when you say that SAR only averaged 'eight rebounds four times in his whole career.'
 

bajaden

Hall of Famer
#13
Hopefully this will clarify the argument.

1998-1999- 50 games- 7.5 rebounds per game
1999-2000- 82 games- 10.1 rebounds per game
2000-2001- 81 games- 9.1 rebounds per game
2001-2002- 77 games- 9.0 rebounds per game
2002-2003- 81 games- 8.4 rebounds per game

In the 2003-2004 season he played for two different teams and had different results in each situation. You can check all these stats at:

http://www.databasebasketball.com/players/playerpage.htm?ilkid=ABDURSH01

In a sense, both of you are right and both of you are wrong. He did average over 8 rebounds a game for a season only four times, but he did average more than 8 rebounds. He was pretty consistantly around 7 to 7.5 rebounds when he was healthy.

As I said before. He wasn't a great rebounder, but he wasn't a bad rebounder either. What all this has to do with being a good coach is beyond me. Some of the best coaches, were players that were simply average by NBA standards. I would hope that if Petrie hires him to coach, its because he see's that he has that ability, and not because he feels he owes him something.
 
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