Brook Lopez

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
#1
A couple of years ago I suggested this idea back when Malone was here. Well now we are running an even more big man centric system for a coach used to having two bigs who can score together out there. Well Brook Lopez and Cousins could certainly do that:

http://basketball.realgm.com/wireta...e-Open-To-Trading-Brook-Lopez-Before-Deadline

Slide him into Koufos's role and you don't lose much mobility, you lose a little rebounding, which fits in with the team motif, you gain a more traditional protect the rim shotblocker, and of course you gain a very good offensive center, and a huge one too, which would then force opposing teams to guard one of our two huge offensive bigs with a little teeny tiny PF and see how that works out for them.

The problem is he's got a big contract. Not outlandish by today's standards, but big enough that its hard for us to match. Its $21,165,675 this season, which means to match and stay within the 125% rule we'd have to send out at least $16,932,540 in salary.

The base salaries to match therefore would very likely have to be either Rudy ($13,333,333), or Afflalo ($12,500,000). Afflalo should be available at this point because its been more than 3 months since we signed him (July 9).

The Nets are rebuilding and would be looking for youth and sheddable contracts.

you get agonizingly close with:

Rudy: $13,333,333
+ Willie $3,551,160
================
$16,881,493

but note you can magically make it if you suddenly throw in Farmar's contract.

Actually if you throw in Farmar's contract, its big enough you can make it with Afflalo as the base instead of Rudy. Or you could use Lawson instead and then keep Farmar to replace him as DC comes back.
 

Capt. Factorial

trifolium contra tempestatem subrigere certum est
Staff member
#2
Afflalo should be available at this point because its been more than 3 months since we signed him (July 9).
The rule is three months or December 15th, whichever is later. So we'd have to wait until Dec. 15.

you get agonizingly close with:

Rudy: $13,333,333
+ Willie $3,551,160
================
$16,881,493

but note you can magically make it if you suddenly throw in Farmar's contract.
Of course, Farmar can't be traded until about Feb. 1, three months. I'm not sure off the top of my head what day we signed him. And of course that means we'd have to make room for him on our roster until then.
 
#3
Hes a scoring center and we need another scorer or two. Im not sure how he fits with Cuz but I would take a chance.
If we could pull it off and keep Rudy great. We have plenty of youth that Brooklyn can have along with Afflalo who has a short contract.
 
#5
I don't think Rudy does anything for the Nets. Yeah, he helps them a lot this year, but he's 100% not going to sign with them. So if we're doing a salary filler, I'd rather throw in Afflalo instead. We'll also have to include a rookie.

Affalo+WCS+Papagiannis/Skal/Richardson.

The only downside is that other teams would have more luxurious offers. Celtics would probably give the Nets their pick back....but I feel like the Nets wouldn't do another trade with the Celtics this soon.
 
#6
I was thinking Brook was already a thirty + year old on the downside of his career but he's only 28.
If Joerger thinks he can make this work they can have Afflalo, WCS, a rookie, and whatever minor tweak to make it work.
We would if nothing else have a respectable lineup that the refs would not fuc with.
 
#7
The Nets can probably do a lot better than taking our trash (Ben, WCS, Afflalo) for their borderline All Star caliber center. Rudy or Collison would have to be included in any trade.
 
#8
The Nets can probably do a lot better than taking our trash (Ben, WCS, Afflalo) for their borderline All Star caliber center. Rudy or Collison would have to be included in any trade.
Yeah the Nets probably can do better. I dont know if they are looking more for established talent in return or a salary dump and some youth to build with. They would probably like draft picks which we dont have.
 
#9
I am really interested in Lopez because I think we are one of the only teams that he really fits with and that has the assets to pull a trade off. The beauty of our offseason this year was that with Afflalo/Tolliver/Gay we can now match any big salary without having the other team to take on long term money. And although we dont have a first rounder to trade, we still can offer young players in Ben, WCS, Papagiannis, Richardson and Skal. And our roster is also so deep and versatile that we can replace nearly every rotation guy, for example I could see Brooklyn being interested in Koufos if theyd move on from Lopez.

The only question is, in which combination of our players is Brooklyn interested in? Is for example a framework of Koufos+PapaG+Ben+filler enough? Seems like a massive coup for us because it wouldnt hurt at all but if you think about it, I dont know if Brooklyn will do any better than that. Koufos is on a good contract and gives them a cheap and competent center replacement and could be traded again if they want to. Papagiannis was probably drafted too high but is still equivalent to a #20-25 draft pick. Mclemore is finally showing some life, is still only 23 and is a RFA so Brooklyn could have him for 4-5 years of his prime if they want. If that is not enough we could still add in Detroits 2020 second rounder or talk about other combinations.

Now matter how that deal would be constructed if we could come out of this with Cousins, Lopez, Gay, Collison, Barnes, Casspi, Temple and Lawson on the roster we could really make a push for the #8 seed.
 
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Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
#10
The Nets can probably do a lot better than taking our trash (Ben, WCS, Afflalo) for their borderline All Star caliber center. Rudy or Collison would have to be included in any trade.
I rather doubt it. The Brook Lopez's of the world are out of style, and Brook himself is particularly shat upon because of the losing. Milwaulkee can't give Monroe away. Big Al is now a backup. Spurs fans have decided that Pau Gasol now sucks, etc.

Of course a key would be them being able to convince themselves WCS would be something (I see no realistic scenario where that would not be the key piece -- a young replacement center from the lottery). And to that end it might be imperative not to let him play any longer this season until the trade. :)
 
K

KingMilz

Guest
#11
Trevor Booker is the guy we should go for instead he's Reggie Evans with decent ball handling and insane athletic ability, he's been terrific this year going for a near double double and handing out some good passes and just bringing insane level energy. I would try get a package going where we get him and Hollis Jefferson (poor mans MKG so far) for WCS/Casspi and whatever other assets. Cousins works well with high energy athletic guys imo and we really missed on Booker in the offseason he's only making 1 million more than Tolliver...

But I would not mind Brook if he can stay healthy him and Cousins would be a nightmare duo to match up against cause both can do everything on offense.
 
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#12
I rather doubt it. The Brook Lopez's of the world are out of style, and Brook himself is particularly shat upon because of the losing. Milwaulkee can't give Monroe away. Big Al is now a backup. Spurs fans have decided that Pau Gasol now sucks, etc.

Of course a key would be them being able to convince themselves WCS would be something (I see no realistic scenario where that would not be the key piece -- a young replacement center from the lottery). And to that end it might be imperative not to let him play any longer this season until the trade. :)
I agree, I dont think Lopez value is that high. He doesnt fit with what the modern trend is offensively, but especially defensively teams are going to have questions. With more and more teams going small you have to have a shotblocker and rebounder at the five. Lopez does neither of those things very well. But next to Cousins and on the second unit you can live with that. Add in that the center market is dried up and that Lopez has injury risks (they only play him 24 min per game and hold him out of back to backs) and I struggle to see which team will give up a lot of assets and beat our offer of one young center + young wing. And I doubt Ainge will consolidate his assets for Lopez, not when he still hopes for Blake, Cousins or what ever in Free Agency.
 
#13
I rather doubt it. The Brook Lopez's of the world are out of style, and Brook himself is particularly shat upon because of the losing. Milwaulkee can't give Monroe away. Big Al is now a backup. Spurs fans have decided that Pau Gasol now sucks, etc.

Of course a key would be them being able to convince themselves WCS would be something (I see no realistic scenario where that would not be the key piece -- a young replacement center from the lottery). And to that end it might be imperative not to let him play any longer this season until the trade. :)
Cool. You and your homie can keep living in fantasy land where you overvalue the Kings assets (they have none except for Cuz). I'm telling you you're not getting Lopez or Noel for piece of crap WCS, but you can keep believing anyone would agree to that trade lol. Brooklyn also has no incentive to outright tank since Boston has their picks, so you're going to have to give them a decent pick or a young player that has upside...Kings have neither.
 
#14
I see it as a win-now move, so I'm not sure I'd like trading Rudy- and it's not like the Nets would value Rudy on an expiring contract very much considering they are still far from a competitive team.

You can make a trade around Koufos and young guys, for example:
Koufos, Ben, WCS and Richardson for Lopez.

I think it's a good deal for the Nets, but we're giving up both Ben and WCS which might hurt us in the long term, but will make us a stronger team in the short term and allow us to keep Farmar and also leave a roster spot open, this is our roster after that trade:

PG: DC/Ty/Farmar
SG: Afflalo/Temple
SF: Rudy/Casspi/Barnes
PF: DMC/Tolliver/Skal (Barnes/Casspi)
C: Brook/Papa (DMC)

We can start DMC, Rudy and Brook together and have a decent backup at every position and still maintain some depth.
 
#15
If Cousins and KK can play together so can DMC/Lopez and we'd easily dominate teams PF's would have to guard Boogie. Now Brooklyn can't be in all out rebuild as Boston owns there 1st next 2 seasons so a trade would have to o bring in young players that are also ready:

Teams in need of center: and one of these teams might trade for Noel

Portland: Turner/Crabble/Leonard/Harkless/Aminu
New Orleans: Asik/Pondexter/Hill
Boston: reportedly not interested
Washington: Gortat/Morris/Porter/Oubre
Charlotte: Kaminsky/Williams
Milwaukee: Henson/Monroe

I'd say we offer Gay/Ben/WCS for Lopez gives them 2 young players and a good sf who they would have upper hand to resign.

Collision/Lawson
AA/Temple
Barnes/Casspi
DMC/Tolliver
Lopez/KK

I'd go on record and say we'd make the playoffs and upset GS with that team.
 
#16
Also I'm in the don't even list to Cousins offers but if he demanded out in the offseason we'd still be in a great spot. We could trade him to Boston for Crowder/Roizer/Nets pick and still have a team that would compete for the playoffs while gaining a top 8 pick in a loaded draft
 
#17
Cool. You and your homie can keep living in fantasy land where you overvalue the Kings assets (they have none except for Cuz). I'm telling you you're not getting Lopez or Noel for piece of crap WCS, but you can keep believing anyone would agree to that trade lol. Brooklyn also has no incentive to outright tank since Boston has their picks, so you're going to have to give them a decent pick or a young player that has upside...Kings have neither.
I agree with you 100%. Outside of Cousins I don't think the Kings would have anything the Nets would really be interested in. The Kings don't have good assets. Gay has been off to a good start and I could see a playoff team wanting to add him but not a team looking for young talent like the Nets.
 
#18
I agree with you 100%. Outside of Cousins I don't think the Kings would have anything the Nets would really be interested in. The Kings don't have good assets. Gay has been off to a good start and I could see a playoff team wanting to add him but not a team looking for young talent like the Nets.
This from a guy whose team's fans overvalue every one of their players. But hey, Gil renard agrees with you so that's cool.
 
#19
This from a guy whose team's fans overvalue every one of their players. But hey, Gil renard agrees with you so that's cool.
As most know I'm a Celtics fan here first and a Kings fan second. My two favorite teams. Maybe you think most Boston fans overvalue guys I get it but I would love a trade between the two. Kings could get a ransom. Celtics have all the right pieces to get the Kings headed in the right direction.

From all accounts it sounds like the draft class is going to be really top heavy. Kings could start by asking for one or both of the Nets picks. I know a lot of you didn't like Jaylen Brown but I can tell you he looks legit and is a tireless worker. He has the total respect of all the vets on the Celtics team already at 19. He started the other night against the Cavs. He would be a great start for the Kings rebuild. Check out the link


Smart, Bradley, Rozier, Crowder. Celtics have guys playing in Europe they took in the first round in Zitic and Yabusele. As Kings fans I encourage you to get on board with these overhyped Boston assets because IF IF IF IF the Kings consider trading Cousins at any point the Kings are going to be listening to some kind of offer from the Celtics. For me a trade between these two teams would make my head explode. I love the young talent on the Celtics. Kings would have a good young hard working coach, loads of young talent and cap space. It would really allow Joerger to put his stamp on this team and totally change the culture.
 
#20
I don't think Rudy does anything for the Nets. Yeah, he helps them a lot this year, but he's 100% not going to sign with them. So if we're doing a salary filler, I'd rather throw in Afflalo instead. We'll also have to include a rookie.

Affalo+WCS+Papagiannis/Skal/Richardson.

The only downside is that other teams would have more luxurious offers. Celtics would probably give the Nets their pick back....but I feel like the Nets wouldn't do another trade with the Celtics this soon.
Skal is not like the others, nor would he be offered
 
K

KingMilz

Guest
#23
Also I'm in the don't even list to Cousins offers but if he demanded out in the offseason we'd still be in a great spot. We could trade him to Boston for Crowder/Roizer/Nets pick and still have a team that would compete for the playoffs while gaining a top 8 pick in a loaded draft
The Nets have actually looked decent the first 6 games even with injuries to Lin/Vasquez (they also rested Brook Lopez) that coach has them playing really hard.
 
#26
I see it as a win-now move, so I'm not sure I'd like trading Rudy- and it's not like the Nets would value Rudy on an expiring contract very much considering they are still far from a competitive team.

You can make a trade around Koufos and young guys, for example:
Koufos, Ben, WCS and Richardson for Lopez.

I think it's a good deal for the Nets, but we're giving up both Ben and WCS which might hurt us in the long term, but will make us a stronger team in the short term and allow us to keep Farmar and also leave a roster spot open, this is our roster after that trade:

PG: DC/Ty/Farmar
SG: Afflalo/Temple
SF: Rudy/Casspi/Barnes
PF: DMC/Tolliver/Skal (Barnes/Casspi)
C: Brook/Papa (DMC)

We can start DMC, Rudy and Brook together and have a decent backup at every position and still maintain some depth.
This might be the slowest team in existence.

But I like the idea of Brook-Boogie. Both guys have the jumper and both guys are really comfortable operating from the high post or in the paint. Brook is actually a really solid defender, but he's so bad at rebounding, that it just gets assumed he's bad at defense. But with Boogie there, that's not much of an issue.
 
#27
As most know I'm a Celtics fan here first and a Kings fan second. My two favorite teams. Maybe you think most Boston fans overvalue guys I get it but I would love a trade between the two. Kings could get a ransom. Celtics have all the right pieces to get the Kings headed in the right direction.

From all accounts it sounds like the draft class is going to be really top heavy. Kings could start by asking for one or both of the Nets picks. I know a lot of you didn't like Jaylen Brown but I can tell you he looks legit and is a tireless worker. He has the total respect of all the vets on the Celtics team already at 19. He started the other night against the Cavs. He would be a great start for the Kings rebuild. Check out the link


Smart, Bradley, Rozier, Crowder. Celtics have guys playing in Europe they took in the first round in Zitic and Yabusele. As Kings fans I encourage you to get on board with these overhyped Boston assets because IF IF IF IF the Kings consider trading Cousins at any point the Kings are going to be listening to some kind of offer from the Celtics. For me a trade between these two teams would make my head explode. I love the young talent on the Celtics. Kings would have a good young hard working coach, loads of young talent and cap space. It would really allow Joerger to put his stamp on this team and totally change the culture.
I've wanted this to happen during the off-season. Smart+Brown+Kelly O+Amir Johnson (for cap)+Nets pick for something like Boogie+filler. Leaves us with the following in 2017:

Skal
Brown
Smart
Kelly O
WCS
Papa
Richardson
McLemore
Bogdan
Nets 2017 pick (likely top 10) (I'm sure we pick up their pick swap rights correct? Only makes sense)
Our 2017 pick (almost assuredly top 10)

Plus, we'd still have DC, Koufos, Gay and potentially Afflalo that other teams might want. Defintely could snag another first+a decent young guy at least for those guys.

There's 0 chance Boston would pass on this either. Gives them a dynamite starting 5 with IT-Bradley-Crowder-Horford-Boogie. We'd gut your depth pretty hard, Celts would still have Zeller, Jerekbo, Rozier, Gerald Green and a piece from us like Casspi or Ben. But who cares when you'd have the best constructed starting 5 (not most talented, but easily top 3) in the NBA.

The opportunity is there to make the right move, but Vlade won't do it. Likely goes down with the sinking ship with no real future plan. What sucks is that actually creates a really nice looking future team:

Smart
Richardson/Bogdan/Ben
Brown
WCS/Skal
Kelly O/Papagiannis

Great size at every position, oozing with defensive potential, has shooting. The only salary commitment we'd have to make to this core next off-season is resigning Kelly O, who is 1) a RFA and 2) probably costs 13-14mil/season. Ben would be up too, but that could be decided after he actually got real playing time and offensive opportunity.

No real franchise player, but maybe we'd actually get lucky for once and get a top 3 pick with 2 chances at it.
 

Tetsujin

The Game Thread Dude
#28
I've wanted this to happen during the off-season. Smart+Brown+Kelly O+Amir Johnson (for cap)+Nets pick for something like Boogie+filler. Leaves us with the following in 2017:

Skal
Brown
Smart
Kelly O
WCS
Papa
Richardson
McLemore
Bogdan
Nets 2017 pick (likely top 10) (I'm sure we pick up their pick swap rights correct? Only makes sense)
Our 2017 pick (almost assuredly top 10)

Plus, we'd still have DC, Koufos, Gay and potentially Afflalo that other teams might want. Defintely could snag another first+a decent young guy at least for those guys.

There's 0 chance Boston would pass on this either. Gives them a dynamite starting 5 with IT-Bradley-Crowder-Horford-Boogie. We'd gut your depth pretty hard, Celts would still have Zeller, Jerekbo, Rozier, Gerald Green and a piece from us like Casspi or Ben. But who cares when you'd have the best constructed starting 5 (not most talented, but easily top 3) in the NBA.

The opportunity is there to make the right move, but Vlade won't do it. Likely goes down with the sinking ship with no real future plan. What sucks is that actually creates a really nice looking future team:

Smart
Richardson/Bogdan/Ben
Brown
WCS/Skal
Kelly O/Papagiannis

Great size at every position, oozing with defensive potential, has shooting. The only salary commitment we'd have to make to this core next off-season is resigning Kelly O, who is 1) a RFA and 2) probably costs 13-14mil/season. Ben would be up too, but that could be decided after he actually got real playing time and offensive opportunity.

No real franchise player, but maybe we'd actually get lucky for once and get a top 3 pick with 2 chances at it.
We're the Kings so I wouldn't count on it.
 

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
#29
Not to mention that Joerger would resign tomorrow.

I've mentioned before youth = worthless unless its star youth. A young roleplayer is just generally a worse version of a veteran roleplayer. A whole stack of young roleplayers??

Nice new empty echoing $700 million stadium you have there. But let me make some calls and maybe we can get you a couple of weekends of Ice Capades to help you out.
 
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#30
Cool. You and your homie can keep living in fantasy land
You mean that place where you're an actual voice of reason?

Brick has a much firmer grip on reality that you do. By a lot.

Brook is actually a really solid defender, but he's so bad at rebounding, that it just gets assumed he's bad at defense.
The WCS haters would consider his rebounding a welcome improvement even though Trill doesn't start anymore.