Ben for DeRozan?

funkykingston

Super Moderator
Staff member
#2
In terms of talent DeRozan is definitely an upgrade. However, he and Rudy were horribly inefficient and simply a bad pairing when both were in Toronto. Add in the fact that Toronto would need additional salary and would likely demand additional assets from a Kings team that is looking pretty balanced on paper right now and I'd definitely pass.

PDA was all about asset acquisition. Vlade is about building a team.
 

kingsboi

Hall of Famer
#4
so you want a inefficient chucker to take more shots away from Cousins and Rudy? we got our second and third fiddle in place. The question now lies how many wins will those fiddles produce along with the supporting cast where Ben lies upon.
 

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
#5
First that article/mention is just speculation, not a rumor. Not saying you are claiming it was, just wanting to clarify that for anybody else coming along.

Second of all, its just tossed out there without any real consideration of the salary implications. After Vlade's work this summer we are fresh out of expendable contracts, and while DeRozan is not on an impossible deal, it would take more than Ben to make contracts match.

Thirdly, normally think when you're a bad team you flat take plus talent trades, for an in prime All Star no less, whenever they are presented. But in this particular case you would have been hard pressed to come up with a guy less likely to help. DeRozan's value is as a volume scorer, and all our volume scoring is already claimed and accounted for. He's not a 3pt shooter, has never been efficient -- his TS% the last 4 years has been .503, .523, .532, .510. he and Rudy already famously teamed in a terrible stagnant inefficient mess that actually let us land Rudy here, where he's been better. He's not a noted defender, although they have been better defensively as a team than we have. he has developed some ability to distribute, so that could help. Playing next to a pure pass first PG like Rondo could help. But its not going to give him the 3pt range we desperately need, nor make him a stopper, nor keep him from draining shots from better offensive options in Cuz and Rudy. So overall if such an opportunity were to arise, I'd be more interested in working the phones and seeing if a 3rd team couldn't be involved to give us something closer to our own ideal fit, while the 3rd team in need of volume scoring took DeRozan.
 
#6
so you want a inefficient chucker to take more shots away from Cousins and Rudy? we got our second and third fiddle in place. The question now lies how many wins will those fiddles produce along with the supporting cast where Ben lies upon.
Since nobody so far was for this, who is "you" you are referring to?
 
#8
I like Derozan a lot, but he's redundant with Rudy. And we've already seen sample size of games of them being ineffective playing with each other. Right idea of the type of guy to look for if we were to trade Ben, just need a player with a different skill-set.
 
K

KingMilz

Guest
#9
Before we even think of moving anyone in the "core"or that has potential we have to see what Rondo play's like, if Rondo is last year's Rondo we will be making a trade rather quickly for other pieces and I don't think DeMar is the type of piece we need as long as Rudy Gay is on this squad.
 
K

KingMilz

Guest
#10
so you want a inefficient chucker to take more shots away from Cousins and Rudy? we got our second and third fiddle in place. The question now lies how many wins will those fiddles produce along with the supporting cast where Ben lies upon.
I always see people on here calling guys like DeMar and Monta (among other quality players) inefficient chuckers when they in the last few seasons both lead there teams to the playoffs. If they are so ineffective with them as a #1/#1b player than why are there teams making the playoffs?

Nothing inefficient about winning.
 

kingsboi

Hall of Famer
#12
I always see people on here calling guys like DeMar and Monta (among other quality players) inefficient chuckers when they in the last few seasons both lead there teams to the playoffs. If they are so ineffective with them as a #1/#1b player than why are there teams making the playoffs?

Nothing inefficient about winning.
Since when did DeMar and Monta lead their teams into the playoffs? they were nice third fiddles and the teams they played on had some quality depth...it helped Monta used to play for Milwaukee in the dreaded Eastern Conference where they did nothing once they got there. As far as Dallas is concerned, last I checked as long as Dirk is on that team they always have a fighting chance because Dallas year in and year out has a good amount of depth to get them through the season but once the postseason comes, they fall on their face because they are pretenders. If you really think those two chuckers are leading their respective teams into the playoffs...I question what sport you are watching mate.
 

Mr. S£im Citrus

Doryphore of KingsFans.com
Staff member
#13
Third fiddle? DeRozan led his team in minutes per game, field goal attempts per game, and points per game, and so did MEHIA. If he was the third fiddle, then who was the second fiddle (If you say Valanciunas, I'm going to laugh, like, so hard)?
 

kingsboi

Hall of Famer
#14
DeRozan lead his team in all those categories because who else was going to take those shots besides Kyle Lowry? In the process they had good depth and they were a fun team to watch in the regular season. When I say third fiddle, he would make a good third fiddle on a team that's missing a player or two to get over the hump and he can bring additional scoring but what else really?
 

Mr. S£im Citrus

Doryphore of KingsFans.com
Staff member
#17
The point stands: every team has someone who leads the team in attempts, someone who leads the team in points. If Toronto is as deep as you claim, it didn't have to be DeRozan. But, it was. And that guy doesn't always get his team to the playoffs. But, he did.

I tend to feel like there's unnecessary shade throwing involved in calling the leading scorer on a playoff team a "third fiddle."
 
#18
Read all of the above. Don't disagree with most of the observations but player Ben for player DeRozan? In a heart beat. DeRozan is clearly a better basketball player.
 
#19
Are we at the point where we are less worried about acquiring assets and now more concerned with fit? If so, I don't want DeRozen. He and Rudy didn't work before, and I'm not sure why they would work again. (And while I don't have them handy, I did look up the numbers during some Kyle Lowry debates last year. The lineups with Gay and Lowry did fine, but the lineups with gay and DeRozen did worse).
 

kingsboi

Hall of Famer
#20
So DeRozan was the reason Toronto got into the playoffs with all his shot attempts? Call it throwing shade all you want...the other players on Toronto besides DeMar and Kyle are role players...they aren't going to put up those type of shots because they know their role. Toronto got into the playoffs by having depth and playing in the Eastern Conference, not because DeMar lead them in PPG.
 
#22
The point stands: every team has someone who leads the team in attempts, someone who leads the team in points. If Toronto is as deep as you claim, it didn't have to be DeRozan. But, it was. And that guy doesn't always get his team to the playoffs. But, he did.

I tend to feel like there's unnecessary shade throwing involved in calling the leading scorer on a playoff team a "third fiddle."
Carmello Anthony led his team to the playoffs, do you want him? We're talking about the Eastern Conference. Put either of those two teams in the west and I almost guarantee they don't make the playoffs.
 
#23
The point stands: every team has someone who leads the team in attempts, someone who leads the team in points. If Toronto is as deep as you claim, it didn't have to be DeRozan. But, it was. And that guy doesn't always get his team to the playoffs. But, he did.

I tend to feel like there's unnecessary shade throwing involved in calling the leading scorer on a playoff team a "third fiddle."
Slim I think I need to point out Toronto made the Playoffs in the Eastern Conference. DeRozan did not get meningitis and the coach was not fired by the GM and Advisor who them hit the road themselves.
 
K

KingMilz

Guest
#24
Carmello Anthony led his team to the playoffs, do you want him? We're talking about the Eastern Conference. Put either of those two teams in the west and I almost guarantee they don't make the playoffs.
If he were healthy off course you would he lead his team in both conferences to the playoffs.....Btw when was the last time the Kings had a winning record against the Ëast?
 
K

KingMilz

Guest
#25
Since when did DeMar and Monta lead their teams into the playoffs? they were nice third fiddles and the teams they played on had some quality depth...it helped Monta used to play for Milwaukee in the dreaded Eastern Conference where they did nothing once they got there. As far as Dallas is concerned, last I checked as long as Dirk is on that team they always have a fighting chance because Dallas year in and year out has a good amount of depth to get them through the season but once the postseason comes, they fall on their face because they are pretenders. If you really think those two chuckers are leading their respective teams into the playoffs...I question what sport you are watching mate.
Monta was Dallas best player the last 2 years and the year without him and OJ Mayo instead they never made the playoffs.....3rd fiddle to who? I think your the one watching a different sport "mate".
 

Mr. S£im Citrus

Doryphore of KingsFans.com
Staff member
#26
Slim I think I need to point out Toronto made the Playoffs in the Eastern Conference. DeRozan did not get meningitis and the coach was not fired by the GM and Advisor who them hit the road themselves.
I am aware of that, which is why I used the Tony Wroten example; Philadelphia is also in the east.

You can spit that yang about "weak east," if you want to, but there are still seven teams in the east that didn't make the playoffs, so he's got to be some kind of good.
 
#27
I am aware of that, which is why I used the Tony Wroten example; Philadelphia is also in the east.

You can spit that yang about "weak east," if you want to, but there are still seven teams in the east that didn't make the playoffs, so he's got to be some kind of good.
So is he a 2 or a 3? I guess it really boils down to who does he check on the opposing team? Who does he guard?
 

kingsboi

Hall of Famer
#28
Monta was Dallas best player the last 2 years and the year without him and OJ Mayo instead they never made the playoffs.....3rd fiddle to who? I think your the one watching a different sport "mate".
Look...I'm not taking anything away from Monta but if he is a team's primary option, you see how things end up. He would be a third fiddle on this team if he were to sign, sure on Dallas he was second fiddle to Dirk but couldn't get out of the first round so at this point it's just saying he scored the most PPG and attempted the most so he must of been the reason they got in.