Arenas wants to prevent Bonds asterisk

[HndsmCelt]

http://canadianpress.google.com/article/ALeqM5ggDziJ0GNPO7ASXEHuW3EdG3fy8Q

Wizards' Arenas wants to buy Bonds' 756th ball to prevent asterisk

22 hours ago
WASHINGTON - If Gilbert Arenas has his way, the baseball Barry Bonds hit for his record-breaking 756th career homer will never be branded with an asterisk.
Arenas' solution? He wants to buy the ball.
Fashion designer Marc Ecko bought the ball in an online auction, then set up a Web site so people could vote to determine its fate. Ecko announced the winning choice this week: branding the ball with an asterisk before it's sent to the Hall of Fame.

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

Does Arenas plan to give the ball to the Hall? Because, for better or worse, that's where it belongs... with or without an asterisk.

I read this guy Ecko say that he was going to give the ball to the Hall; if Arenas has no such intention, then I support Ecko's side in this.

 

[pdxKingsFan]

I'd say the last HR ball Bonds ever hits belongs in the hall, not the one that broke the record. Ecko is being a jerk, I don't really care what Arenas wants to do with the ball and I imagine if Ecko defaces it that the HOF won't want to display it.

Maybe they can put Ecko and his ball in the obnoxious fan wing along with Bartman, that bratty little kid that helped the Yankees to their first World Series of the 90s and the father/son combo who attacked the umpire.

 

[6th]

I got the impression that Arenas is against the ball going to the hall with an asterisk. Hopefully, that did mean he wanted to buy the ball to send it to the hall...just without the asterisk branded on it.

No matter which side people are on, I agree with you, Mr. S£im. One way or another, it belongs in the hall.

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

I'd say the last HR ball Bonds ever hits belongs in the hall, not the one that broke the record. Ecko is being a jerk, I don't really care what Arenas wants to do with the ball and I imagine if Ecko defaces it that the HOF won't want to display it.

I wouldn't be at all surprised if they will; it would be perfectly consistent with the passive-aggressive relationship Major League Baseball has with Bonds.

 

[Bricklayer]

heh -- that Gilbert Arenas would be against the idea just confirms for me that it was a grand idea.

Voted for the asterisk, along with about 10mil others apparently. And sent Ecko a message saying don't you dare listen to the yabbermouth. The whole idea was rather classic, and hearing the likes of Barry Bonds and Gilbert Areans cry about it...well, you could hardly come up with any greater confirmation.

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

That does it... if I change my avatar again any time soon, I'm going to put a picture of Gilbert Arenas up there, and change my custom title to "Yabbermouth."

 

[VF21]

I'd say the last HR ball Bonds ever hits belongs in the hall, not the one that broke the record. Ecko is being a jerk, I don't really care what Arenas wants to do with the ball and I imagine if Ecko defaces it that the HOF won't want to display it.

Maybe they can put Ecko and his ball in the obnoxious fan wing along with Bartman, that bratty little kid that helped the Yankees to their first World Series of the 90s and the father/son combo who attacked the umpire.

It's not Ecko who's "being a jerk." He bought the ball and conducted the Internet poll on what to do with it. Loyalist Bonds fans obviously didn't care enough to vote.

I know I voted. And I think everyone probably knows for which option...

 

[pdxKingsFan]

I wouldn't be at all surprised if they will; it would be perfectly consistent with the passive-aggressive relationship Major League Baseball has with Bonds.

Regardless it would be horribly stupid of them to display a defaced ball that will forever bear the mark of somebody's not-so-cheap publicity stunt. Today its an asterisk, tomorrow what's to stop Budweiser from buying a historical item and slapping a Bud logo on it before graciously donating it to the Hall?

Mark Ecko has purchased the ball and is intent on destroying it. I guess that's his right, but let's not allow the Bonds hatred to write off what Ecko's doing - destroying an item of historical value for advertising and self promotion. Mark Ecko doesn't respect the integrity of baseball and just because he's a millionaire he doesn't have the right to anoint himself the arbiter of the home run record. I'm surprised so many of you give him a free pass.

 

[VF21]

It wasn't Ecko who placed those millions of votes. It was a prime example of democracy in action. He opened the poll to the public, and the public voted. It's a freaking baseball, not the Statue of Liberty.

Oh, and one more thing? Ecko isn't destroying the integrity of the game of baseball. That happened long before he bought "the ball."

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

... Mark Ecko has purchased the ball and is intent on destroying it. I guess that's his right, but let's not allow the Bonds hatred to write off what Ecko's doing - destroying an item of historical value for advertising and self promotion...

This is a straw man; defacing the ball is neither advertising nor self-promotion.

 

[pdxKingsFan]

Internet polls have zero integrity or scientific merit.

But that's not the point. The Hall of Fame isn't a democracy. If it were Pete Rose, Jim Rice and countless others would be in the Hall of Fame. They aren't. Mark Ecko and his advertising stunt don't belong either.

 

[pdxKingsFan]

This is a straw man; defacing the ball is neither advertising nor self-promotion.

Well then I guess it is sheer stroke of luck that every article on the story identifies the owner as a fashion designer or urban artist. How nice for him.

 

[VF21]

The Hall of Fame should be just that. FAME, not infamy, should determine someone or something's presence. That ball, to many, signifies an accomplishment that was obtained via cheating.

Regardless of whether you think the poll had merit, the point is that BONDS supporters could easily have voted to retain the "integrity" of the souvenir. They didn't.

Sorry, but your arguments are specious at best. Some one could have outbid Ecko, too, but they didn't. The person who originally caught the ball could have donated it directly to Cooperstown, but he didn't.

Vast conspiracy or simply the true essence of majority opinion?

At this point, I'll bow out. I just don't think you can blame Mark Ecko. He could have simply marked the ball and sent it on. He didn't. He said the American public would decide - and they did.

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

But that's not the point. The Hall of Fame isn't a democracy.

You're right; it's an oligarchy. In other words, if the Hall accepts the ball as is, that's their privilege; there's no criteria for who or what is worthy of being in the Hall of Fame, except for what they say is worthy.

Well then I guess it is sheer stroke of luck that every article on the story identifies the owner as a fashion designer or urban artist.

More or less...

Mark Ecko and his advertising stunt don't belong either.

Advertising is paid, one-way communication through a medium in which the sponsor is identified and the message is controlled by the sponsor

Source: wikipedia

What's he advertising? You have a cite saying that he's putting his name on the ball?

EDIT - forgot to respond to that last bit before.

 

[zip95843]

It wasn't Ecko who placed those millions of votes. It was a prime example of democracy in action. He opened the poll to the public, and the public voted. It's a freaking baseball, not the Statue of Liberty.

Oh, and one more thing? Ecko isn't destroying the integrity of the game of baseball. That happened long before he bought "the ball."

VF21, that was nothing to do with democracy. The poll was very poorly organized - it took me, for example, five minutes to run a script that would make a favorable vote.

I think, if the branded ball goes to the Hall, that would destroy the Hall's credibility. But they can face it by making a note: "Asterisk was placed by some person to sell his product."

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

I think, if the branded ball goes to the Hall, that would destroy the Hall's credibility.

I'd like to know whom you feel is more qualified to determine how "credible" the Baseball Hall of Fame is than the Baseball Hall of Fame. Like I said, it's not like there's some criteria or standard that they have to adhere to; they make their own rules.

... But they can face it by making a note: "Asterisk was placed by some person to sell his product."

What product? What product, by placing an asterisk on the baseball, is Ecko selling? What does one thing have to do with the other? Is there a little footnote underneath the asterisk saying "sponsored by Mark Ecko, maker of xyz?" Is there a cite saying that Ecko is only agreeing to turn the ball over to the Hall in exchange for some form of contract to peddle his wares?

Exercising freedom of expression and self-promotion are mutually exclusive. Is there any cite that says he's actually advertising something on the ball or, indeed, anywhere at all within the sphere of influence of MLB? Or are you just making the leap in logic that this guy has a business = this guy is selling something? Do you have anything to back up this accusation, or is this just the straw man that it looks like?

 

[VF21]

VF21, that was nothing to do with democracy. The poll was very poorly organized - it took me, for example, five minutes to run a script that would make a favorable vote.

Gee, maybe you should have just voted...

I think, if the branded ball goes to the Hall, that would destroy the Hall's credibility. But they can face it by making a note: "Asterisk was placed by some person to sell his product."

They could always display it with the note: "Asterisk was placed to acknowledge those millions of baseball fans who think Bonds' record was obtained by using steroids."

 

[SLAB]

Im guaranteeing that at LEAST one fourth, and possibly more of the people that voted to deface the ball were brain-washed media-sheep who listen, love, and worship the word of the likes of Jim Rome, ESPN radio, along with every other self-indulgent sportscaster and the rest of the general public who think they know what they're talking about when they spew their Barry Bonds crap. Hating Barry is 'the thing' and these people just went with the flow because Barry is the anti-Christ in the USA.

And the words I would say about Mark Ecko right now would get me instantly banned, so I won't even bother....I guess it doesn't really matter as Im as good as gone anyways, but whatever.

Have fun pointing at your asterisk Bonds haters, as steroids or no steroids he's sitting at the top of the mountain.

762 baby.

Peace.

 

[VF21]

Im guaranteeing that at LEAST one fourth, and possibly more of the people that voted to deface the ball were brain-washed media-sheep who listen, love, and worship the word of the likes of Jim Rome, ESPN radio, along with every other self-indulgent sportscaster and the rest of the general public who think they know what they're talking about when they spew their Barry Bonds crap. Hating Barry is 'the thing' and these people just went with the flow because Barry is the anti-Christ in the USA.

And the words I would say about Mark Ecko right now would get me instantly banned, so I won't even bother....I guess it doesn't really matter as Im as good as gone anyways, but whatever.

Have fun pointing at your asterisk Bonds haters, as steroids or no steroids he's sitting at the top of the mountain.

762 baby.

Peace.

So it's the whole entire sports media universe plus millions and millions of people who are all blind to the greatness that is Barry Bonds?

Works for me.

Just so you know? I'm not going to point at the asterisk ... or anything else that has to do with Barry Bonds. He's yesterday's news and the game of baseball will be better once he's gone.

as steroids or no steroids he's sitting at the top of the mountain.

Celebrate his record all you like. It won't last forever. Steroids or no steroids? It makes no difference to you, does it? It's all about Barry Bonds being a Giant. Well, he may have worn the uniform of the Giants but he's a very small man whose only mark on the game of baseball will be forever tarnished by the overwhelming allegations of cheating.

 

[Superman]

Gee, maybe you should have just voted...

...

They could always display it with the note: "Asterisk was placed to acknowledge those millions of baseball fans who think Bonds' record was obtained by using steroids."

That's part of his point, though. It was an uncontrolled, unverifiable poll that could have easily been tainted. Hell, Ecko could have not taken any votes and just made up some results to placate the public, and then done what he originally wanted to do with the ball. No one knows.

I don't care whether the ball gets branded with an asterisk or not, but I hope that, if it does, the Hall rejects it. Accepting a ball that has been tampered with would set a terrible precedent when it comes to what gets accepted and what doesn't, as well as what Baseball promotes and what it remains neutral on.

 

[VF21]

Yes, it was uncontrolled and unverifiable - like virtually every single poll we participate in. Ecko bought the ball. It's his to do with as he pleases.

I think the idea of the hall rejecting the ball because it's been tampered with would be silly, IMHO. Setting a precedent about what? That a piece of equipment that to many signifies a record the individual does not deserve and did not honestly earn is somehow tainted by a mark? It's already tainted in the eyes of many...

 

[coolhandluke]

I don't care whether the ball gets branded with an asterisk or not, but I hope that, if it does, the Hall rejects it. Accepting a ball that has been tampered with would set a terrible precedent when it comes to what gets accepted and what doesn't, as well as what Baseball promotes and what it remains neutral on.

Wow, finally someone with some common sense. Agree 100%.

 

[VF21]

Wow, finally someone with some common sense. Agree 100%.

Oh please - we're talking about a stupid piece of sports equipment. There's absolutely no common sense involved.

 

[coolhandluke]

Umm... no.

 

[Superman]

Yes, it was uncontrolled and unverifiable - like virtually every single poll we participate in. Ecko bought the ball. It's his to do with as he pleases.

Yes it is his to do with as he pleases. Will not argue with that. But the point is that I do not buy the "this is what baseball fans want" line of reasoning. I am not trying to point fingers, but you are not even a baseball fan (if I remember correctly), and you voted in this pointless poll. I am a baseball fan, and did not. And I would not be surprised if you voted more than once. My guess is that a large percentage of the people who voted in this poll only voted because of their dislike for Bonds, not because of how they feel about the game. That may be irrelevant, and I certainly cannot prove it, but I do not think that this poll is a good representation of how baseball fans in America feel about the topic.

the idea of the hall rejecting the ball because it's been tampered with would be silly, IMHO. Setting a precedent about what? That a piece of equipment that to many signifies a record the individual does not deserve and did not honestly earn is somehow tainted by a mark? It's already tainted in the eyes of many...

I'd rather see baseball say "no, we don't want Barry Bonds' 756th home run ball in the Hall because we feel the record is tainted", than see them accept a ball that's been defaced because of how some people feel about the record. If it's tainted, then don't accept it either way. But don't let Ecko or anyone else decide that a piece of baseball history should be defaced and displayed in the Hall of Fame to spite Barry Bonds. If it's tainted, then the right thing to do is to reject it on the grounds that it's not worthy of the Hall of Fame.

The wrong thing to do is give baseball fans the idea that they can deface balls or bats or anything else because of their personal feelings about the player or team that the memorabilia is connected to, and then send them to the Hall of Fame to disparage either the game, the player, the team, the record or anything else. Any item that gets accepted into the Hall should be displayed just the way it was when it was used in the game. The only marks that should be on an item should be signatures, etc.

 

[VF21]

First, I WAS a baseball fan for over 30 years, until the whole steroid mess pretty much ruined the game. Of course, the first nail in the coffin for me as a fan was the stupid player strike.

Second, no I did not vote more than once. And I resent just a little what you're implying. And. for the record, if Bonds haters voted multiple times then where were the balancing Bonds supporters who would do the same thing? Face it, dear Supes. Not many people actually support Barry Bonds. Yes, there are some Giants fans who made excuses so they could root for someone in a SF uniform to break the record. I honestly don't think too many people really believe him to be innocent. I think the truth could still come out - the feds are still investigating and the grand jury has not made its final recommendations.

I've made my position clear about Barry Bonds so many times I'm not going to revisit it. Quite frankly, I don't think HE or the stupid ball belong in the Hall of Fame, unless they build a separate wing for him, Mark McGwire, Sammy Sosa and anyone else who reached milestones because they decided doing so made cheating okay.

 

[Superman]

First, I WAS a baseball fan for over 30 years, until the whole steroid mess pretty much ruined the game. Of course, the first nail in the coffin for me as a fan was the stupid player strike.

Second, no I did not vote more than once. And I resent just a little what you're implying. And. for the record, if Bonds haters voted multiple times then where were the balancing Bonds supporters who would do the same thing? Face it, dear Supes. Not many people actually support Barry Bonds. Yes, there are some Giants fans who made excuses so they could root for someone in a SF uniform to break the record. I honestly don't think too many people really believe him to be innocent. I think the truth could still come out - the feds are still investigating and the grand jury has not made its final recommendations.

I didn't say you voted more than once. I said I wouldn't be surprised if you did. And that is not just directed at you; it is directed at anyone who voted primarily because of their disdain for Bonds, instead of their love for the integrity of the game. I am assuming that you feel the game has no integrity to protect anymore, which is why you don't follow the sport like you used to. If that's true, how damaging would it be to accept a piece of memorabilia that has been defaced in an attempt to disparage one player?

That having been said, I am not defending Bonds or the ball or the record. I just do not feel that defaced memorabilia should be in the Hall of Fame, whether the record it represents is tainted or not.

I've made my position clear about Barry Bonds so many times I'm not going to revisit it. Quite frankly, I don't think HE or the stupid ball belong in the Hall of Fame, unless they build a separate wing for him, Mark McGwire, Sammy Sosa and anyone else who reached milestones because they decided doing so made cheating okay.

Again, it's not about Bonds or Sosa or McGwire or anyone else who may or may not have taken steroids or other illegal performance-enhancing drugs. It's about the Hall of Fame. If they want to accept the ball, they should do so on the condition that it is not defaced in any way; it should be in the condition it was when the fan went home with it. If they reject it, they should do so because they don't consider it to be worthy of the Hall, due to the allegations against Bonds.

Defaced memorabilia should not be in the Hall of Fame of any sport. To me, it's the same as the Football Hall of Fame accepting an O.J. Simpson touchdown ball that's been branded "Murderer", or anything else like that. The Hall winds up serving as a grand stand for Bonds' detractors. That's not what it is, or what it should be. It doesn't matter what fans voted for or what Marc Ecko thinks. No defaced paraphernalia should be accepted into any Hall of Fame, ever. Regardless of any scandals surrounding the player or team that the item is connected to.

 

[zip95843]

Again, it's not about Bonds or Sosa or McGwire or anyone else who may or may not have taken steroids or other illegal performance-enhancing drugs. It's about the Hall of Fame. If they want to accept the ball, they should do so on the condition that it is not defaced in any way; it should be in the condition it was when the fan went home with it. If they reject it, they should do so because they don't consider it to be worthy of the Hall, due to the allegations against Bonds.

Defaced memorabilia should not be in the Hall of Fame of any sport. To me, it's the same as the Football Hall of Fame accepting an O.J. Simpson touchdown ball that's been branded "Murderer", or anything else like that. The Hall winds up serving as a grand stand for Bonds' detractors. That's not what it is, or what it should be. It doesn't matter what fans voted for or what Marc Ecko thinks. No defaced paraphernalia should be accepted into any Hall of Fame, ever. Regardless of any scandals surrounding the player or team that the item is connected to.

+1...

 

[uolj]

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