All Time Kings Rnd 2: #3 Capt. Factorial v. #6 Jespher

[Bricklayer]

Welcome to Round 2 of the Kings All Time Draft Playoffs!

This matchup is between #3 seed Capt. Factorial (44-38) and the #6 seed Jespher (42-40). In a 7 game series played at Sleep Train Arena (i.e. a neutral court), which team would win, and what would the game score be?

#3 Capt. Factorial (44-38)
Starters
C Scot Pollard (2001-02): 80gms 23.5min 6.4pts (.550 .000 .693) 7.1reb 0.7ast 0.9stl 1.0blk 0.9TO
PF Carl Landry (2009-10): 28gms 37.6mpg 18.0ppg (.520 .333 .741) 6.5reb 0.9ast 1.0stl 0.6blk 1.8TO
SF Rodney McCray (1989-90): 82gms 39.5min 16.6pts (.515 .262 .784) 8.2reb 4.6ast 0.7stl 0.9blk 2.1TO
SG Mitch Richmond (1996-1997): 81gms 38.6min 25.9pts (.454 .428 .861) 3.9reb 4.2ast 1.5stl 0.3blk 2.9TO
PG Tyreke Evans (2009-10): 72gms 37.2min 20.1pts (.458 .255 .748) 5.3rebs 5.8ast 1.5stl 0.4blk 3.0TO

Bench
PF/C Michael "Yogi" Stewart (1997-98): 81gms 21.7mpg 4.6ppg (.480 .000 .458) 6.6rpg 0.8apg 0.4spg 2.4bpg 1.0TO
PG Jim Les (1990-91): 55gms 25.4min 7.2pts (.444 .461 .835) 2.0reb 5.4ast 1.0stl 0.1blk 1.4TO
SG/SF Ricky Berry (1988-89): 64gms 22.0min 11.0pts (.450 .406 .789) 3.1reb 1.3ast 0.6stl 0.3blk 1.3TO
SF/PF Donte Greene (2009-10): 76gms 21.4min 8.5pts (.441 .377 .643) 3.1reb 0.9ast 0.5stl 0.7blk 1.2TO

Coach Rick Adelman: 395-229 .633, 8x playoffs

v.

#6 Jespher (42-40)
Starters
C Spencer Hawes (2008-09): 77gms 29.3min 11.4pts (.466 .348 .662) 7.1reb 1.9ast 0.6stl 1.2blk 2.1TO
PF Chris Webber (2000-01): 70gms 40.5min 27.1pts (.481 .071 .703) 11.1rebs 4.2ast 1.3stl 1.7blk 2.8TO
SF/SG Walt "The Wizard" Williams (1994-95): 77gms 35.6min 16.4pts (.446 .348 .731) 4.5reb 4.1ast 1.6stl 0.8blk 3.2TO
SG Danny Ainge (1988-89): 75gms 36.4min 17.9pts (.438 .374 .831) 4.3reb 6.0ast 1.5stl 0.2blk 2.5TO
PG Reggie Theus (1985-86): 82gms 35.6min 18.3pts (.480 .171 .827) 3.7rebs 9.6ast 1.4stl 0.2blk 4.0TO

Bench
PF/C Antoine Carr (1990-91): 77gms 32.8min 20.1pts (.511 .000 .758) 5.5reb 2.5ast 0.6stl 1.3blk 2.2TO
SG/SF Anthony Peeler (2003-04): 75gms 18.5min 5.7pts (.448 .482 .836) 2.0reb 1.6ast 0.7stl 0.1blk 1.0TO
PF/C Mikki Moore (2007-08): 82gms 29.1min 8.5pts (.577 .000 .736) 6.0reb 1.0ast 0.4stl 0.6blk 1.3TO
PG Eddie House (2004-05): - 50gms 11min 4.7pts (.458 .452 .929) 1.2reb 1.3ast 0.4stl 0.1blk 0.4TO

Coach Keith Smart: 48-93 .340

 

[Bricklayer]

I find this an intriguing matchup. You can almost picture the opposing backcourt plans as Jespher's littles race up and down the floor chucking at will, and Capt's little guys slow the game down and try to maul them inside. And then there is that highly destructive Webber/Landry matchup. Interesting.

 

[Capt. Factorial]

I find this an intriguing matchup. You can almost picture the opposing backcourt plans as Jespher's littles race up and down the floor chucking at will, and Capt's little guys slow the game down and try to maul them inside. And then there is that highly destructive Webber/Landry matchup. Interesting.

Well, it should be pretty close until half time. Then Adelman's going to take my team into the locker room and make adjustments while Keith Smart is going to let Jespher's team take a quick nap while he plays Candy Crush.

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

Wait, one team is coached by Rick Adelman, and the other team is coached by Keith Smart? Why is this even a contest?

 

[Rain man]

On player talent, Jespher wins this in 4 or 5 games. Jespher has enough in the backcourt with Ainge and Theus to at least make Tyreke/Mitch (the best backcourt in the tournament) work a bit and neutralize some of their advantage. Plus, Peeler has good size off the bench to contend with those two. The advantage down low is staggering. CWebb is putting up MVP numbers against Landry, and I don't see Pollard helping out that much -especially if Hawes is able to draw Pollard away from the rim Hell- even Antione Carr is licking his chops to go against Landry. Once Pollard goes to the bench with fouls, the reserve front court of Yogi and Greene is even less equipped to guard players one on one in the post.

But, the Adelman vs. Smart angle makes this intriguing. You know Rick would be smart enough to switch Landy to Hawes and let them hit each other with pillows 18 feet from the basket. Plus, Smart wouldn't be able to help himself with so many chuckers, and we would be tortured with endless House-Ainge-Theus-Williams- Webber lineups, thus effectively removing his own advantage down low, while exposing his team to the terror of Mitch and Tyreke posting up Ainge and House, while Rodney McCray feasts on Theus and Landry bullies Walt down low. Poor Antoine Carr probably plays 5-10 minutes off the bench for Webber, Mikki never plays, and Peeler (the only guard with real size and toughness), loses minutes in favor of House.

Yes- Smart would find a way to make this interesting. Still, I refuse to believe that even Smart could blow an advatange of Webber/Hawes/Carr/Moore vs. Pollard/Landry/Yogi and Donte Greene down low. As an analogy, it would be like watching a late era Jerry Sloan team (led by Matt Harpring) playing Scott Brooks and the Westbrook/Durant Thunder. Sloan would outclass Brooks the entire series and steal a few games, but eventually Durant would just win the series on his own, in spite of the coaching. Jespher in 7.

 

[Chupacabra]

I totally neglected the fact that the coaches are a part of this as well. I might have changed my mind had i paid closer attention.

 

[uolj]

Webber and Carr would simply demolish Landry and Yogi. Pollard would be game for a short stint or two, but that's not enough in a long series. Only reason Cap wins two games is because of Adelman v Smart.

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

Yes- Smart would find a way to make this interesting. Still, I refuse to believe that even Smart could blow an advatange of Webber/Hawes/Carr/Moore vs. Pollard/Landry/Yogi and Donte Greene down low.

Smart would find a way to play Webber at SG.

As an analogy, it would be like watching a late era Jerry Sloan team (led by Matt Harpring) playing Scott Brooks and the Westbrook/Durant Thunder. Sloan would outclass Brooks the entire series and steal a few games, but eventually Durant would just win the series on his own, in spite of the coaching. Jespher in 7.

Who on Jespher's team is supposed to be Westbrook in this scenario?

 

[Brick Wall]

Yes- Smart would find a way to make this interesting. Still, I refuse to believe that even Smart could blow an advatange of Webber/Hawes/Carr/Moore vs. Pollard/Landry/Yogi and Donte Greene down low. As an analogy, it would be like watching a late era Jerry Sloan team (led by Matt Harpring) playing Scott Brooks and the Westbrook/Durant Thunder. Sloan would outclass Brooks the entire series and steal a few games, but eventually Durant would just win the series on his own, in spite of the coaching. Jespher in 7.

Huh. The way I see it, it's more like the 2007 Warriors versus the 2007 Mavericks.

 

[Rain man]

Huh. The way I see it, it's more like the 2007 Warriors versus the 2007 Mavericks.

I was just kidding around and trying to come up with a scenario where a well respected coach would lose to an idiot coach because the idiot coach had enough talent. I didn't want to bother to find an actual comparison so I made one up. Comparing this to Mavs-Warriors is giving Nellie WAY WAY too much credit as a great coach.

 

[Brick Wall]

Eh, Don Nelson isn't as good a coach as Rick Adelman, and Avery Johnson is as bad a coach as Keith Smart, so I think the analogy holds up.

 

[Bricklayer]

last day! vote! vote! vote!

 

[Bricklayer]

And here we end up with the closest result of the tournament thus far, in fact it could not have been closer:

Avg. Wins
Capt. Factorial 3.12 (53 total wins)
Jespher 3.06 (52 total wins)

In fact the final margin was caused entirely by Jespher's decision to give Capt. credit and only say he would beat him 4-1, while Capt. went with the traditional 4-0 the other way. Calling a Conversation conference with the team owners/gms/gods before I officially announce a winner.

 

[Capt. Factorial]

Capt. went with the traditional 4-0 the other way.

I am being slandered, slandered I say!

 

[Bricklayer]

Oops! My apologies. Knowing Capt.'s cutthroat nature as I do I of course ASSSUMED he had 4-0'd himself. But looks like he accidentally misclicked and hit 4-1 himself, so he and Jespher balanced out.

Accordingly Capt. advances!

Too bad too, because I was thinking of a clever have your superstar foulout OT tiebreaker procedure too.

 

[Jespher]

More overall wins, but mildly lower average. I guess we blew them out in one game, but lost in seven, eh?

Why go by average instead of overall wins Brick?

 

[Bricklayer]

More overall wins, but mildly lower average. I guess we blew them out in one game, but lost in seven, eh?

Why go by average instead of overall wins Brick?

Intentionally to pick up nuance. Overall wins would render the series scores meaningless and might as well just go with the simple who wins? question normally asked. Also a way to get a wider spread of possible scores to make up for the not infrequent ties that can crop up if you only have 12-15 voters.

This is the first series where its been so tight that it actually became a factor. It did make for an interesting result.

Don't worry, you're up again this round in the Best Offensive Team poll. Some might even say a prohibitive favorite.

 

[VF21]

Intentionally to pick up nuance. Overall wins would render the series scores meaningless and might as well just go with the simple who wins? question normally asked. Also a way to get a wider spread of possible scores to make up for the not infrequent ties that can crop up if you only have 12-15 voters.

This is the first series where its been so tight that it actually became a factor. It did make for an interesting result.

Don't worry, you're up again this round in the Best Offensive Team poll. Some might even say a prohibitive favorite.

I'd like to voice a mild protest to this. When you have 17 people participating and 10 of them pick Jespher as the winner and only 7 pick Capt Factorial (sorry, Capt), I think it's pretty clear who should advance. I will admit, however, that had you gone with the nifty franchise player fouls out OT option, I would have had to gone with the team whose coach would remain the coolest under the pressure.

 

[Bricklayer]

I'd like to voice a mild protest to this. When you have 17 people participating and 10 of them pick Jespher as the winner and only 7 pick Capt Factorial (sorry, Capt), I think it's pretty clear who should advance. I will admit, however, that had you gone with the nifty franchise player fouls out OT option, I would have had to gone with the team whose coach would remain the coolest under the pressure.

The format was chosen for several reasons, although ironically, one prominent one was to break the normal problem in these drafts that the same people ranking the teams for seeding are then voting on the initial matchups, so results tend to follow seeds pretty closely. This I thought would open up the possibility of lower seeds maybe being able to sneak in with an intense following vs. diffuse higher seed goodwill. Ironically it worked in reverse.

Actually my initial idea for combatting the seeding issue was to try a FIBA pool play format, where the teams would be split into 3 pools of 4, each of the 4 teams would play every other member of the pool, and the 2 highest finishers in each pool would move on, with the 2nd place team in pool A playing the first place team in Pool B, the second in Pool B playing the first in Pool C etc. Every team would get 3 guaranteed games against random opponents, rather than seeded ones. But it would be complex, would have dominated the lounge, and I worried voter fatigue would set in. Would have solved the issue though.