AK47...

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sdballer

Starter
#7
#7
Williams for ak, karasev and Gutierrez? Not sure ak has much left in the tank and Williams could be one of our last remaining trade assets so it could waste that but this could be a low risk move.
 
Iced Espresso

Iced Espresso

Starter
#8
#8
macadocious said:
He's on the last year of his deal. He is the perfect trade exemption target. He can back up the 3 and 4 and plays defense. I don't see a downside to it, worst case he doesn't play much.
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I was just coming back here to mention this, just saw it.

I think he would fit in here nicely, gives Malone some options, gives us a real tough and nasty veteran too.

I'm sure he still has something left in the tank for 10-15 mins a game.

To be able to bring Casspi, Evans, and AK off the bench makes us pretty tough as far as a mans man sort of thing.

He may get bought out, he was offered a lot more elsewhere but chose to play for the Nets because of the Russian owner, I can't see them messing with him taking less than half the salary than offered elsewhere, the owner will let him go for nothing and buy him out...taking the cap hit.
 
CurseOfTheSalmons

CurseOfTheSalmons

Starter
#10
#10
i would HAPPILY bring him aboard. he's not the player he once was, but he's still a great passer, knows the game, and would be a great vet presence.

hard to project where he'd fit though. it could be anywhere.

as a starter, he could easily be the anti reggie evans. we could give him the ball in the high post, and he would be able to make a play like a great pass down low. on the flip side, can he really replace jason thompson's defense, rebounding, size, and physicality? we'd have to weigh that.

off the bench, is he a better option than landry?
 
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Capt. Factorial

Capt. Factorial

trifolium contra tempestatem subrigere certum est
Staff member
#12
#12
Iced Espresso said:
I think he gets bought out, then goes wherever he wants probably for the minimum.
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The thing is, if he goes where he wants for the minimum, that probably ends up being an obvious contender. Spurs, Mavs, Cavs, etc. If he gets bought out, we likely can't get him (assuming we want him).

That's where a trade exception comes in. If Brooklyn buys him out, they know they're going to be paying the majority of the $3.3M he is owed because he will sign for the minimum. If we send a trade exception for him, Brooklyn is off the hook for the money. Obviously they'd rather send him for a trade exception than buy him out financially. We would have to pay more, but it would guarantee that we got him instead of somebody else. I would say our chances of getting Kirilenko to sign here after a buyout are slim, so if we want him, using a trade exception to preempt a buyout seems likely to be the only way.
 
Iced Espresso

Iced Espresso

Starter
#13
#13
Capt. Factorial said:
The thing is, if he goes where he wants for the minimum, that probably ends up being an obvious contender. Spurs, Mavs, Cavs, etc. If he gets bought out, we likely can't get him (assuming we want him).

That's where a trade exception comes in. If Brooklyn buys him out, they know they're going to be paying the majority of the $3.3M he is owed because he will sign for the minimum. If we send a trade exception for him, Brooklyn is off the hook for the money. Obviously they'd rather send him for a trade exception than buy him out financially. We would have to pay more, but it would guarantee that we got him instead of somebody else. I would say our chances of getting Kirilenko to sign here after a buyout are slim, so if we want him, using a trade exception to preempt a buyout seems likely to be the only way.
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I agree, but he would probably have to give the thumbs up.

He may actually if he thinks we have a shot at the playoffs, otherwise I think our chances our slim, but still possible.
 
S

swisshh

Starter
#16
#16
macadocious said:
I feel like nobody actually read my posts. We don't have to trade anyone for him, we have a trade exemption we can use.
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Right, and rumors are now that he'll get traded to Philly along with Karasev. Philly would then waive him.

So I looked at waiver rules and tried to figure out possibilities. I always get the rules a little wrong, so warry yee who enter my hypotheticals.

The Clips would really like him, but they cannot claim him off waivers. They would need him to clear waivers. So I looked at the teams that may have interest in him and who could claim him off waivers.

1. Cavs - Worse record than Kings, have Exception to use. Would put them over tax threshhold to claim him off waivers.
2. Minnesota - Only bad team with cap situation that may be nutty enough to claim him.
3. Phoenix - Worse record than Kings, can claim him without facing luxury tax.
4. Kings - Can use trade exception to claim him and won't face tax threshhold. Would need the three above teams to pass.
5. Houston - Has trade Exception and would not face luxury tax to sign him, but would have to wait out about every other team passing on him.

I think he ends up in Cleveland, but it's really about timing and record at the time he gets waived.

Like to add that the players claimed off of waivers can be traded, but not for 30 days. So the Kings could claim AK and keep him for a month, then have his salary/ender as a trade chip for another target they value more highly.
 
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Capt. Factorial

Capt. Factorial

trifolium contra tempestatem subrigere certum est
Staff member
#17
#17
swisshh said:
Right, and rumors are now that he'll get traded to Philly along with Karasev. Philly would then waive him.

So I looked at waiver rules and tried to figure out possibilities.
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OK, maybe I'm wrong here, but I can't see us picking up Kirilenko off of waivers, and here's why.

Brooklyn is actually including an asset (Karasev - a minor asset, but an asset) in their package in order to dump Kirilenko. They would obviously prefer to trade Kirilenko for a trade exception while including no other asset, and we could do that. Obviously, we haven't offered that, or they would take it rather than the Philly trade.

But to pick up Kirilenko off waivers, we'd have to use the trade exception, and we'd still have to pay his full salary. From our point of view, sending the trade exception to Brooklyn and using it during the waiver process are identical, except that in the waiver process we can get scooped. So I see absolutely no benefit to picking up Kirilenko on waivers that couldn't be better accomplished for both sides by simply trading for him.

Now, if you let him get through waivers (assuming he does go through) and then sign him, there you save some money. But it's risky because there will likely be more obvious contenders vying for his services and he'll just go elsewhere.

But if we don't trade the trade exception for him, then use the trade exception to grab him off waivers, we messed up. And PDA is known to be a salary cap guru; he wouldn't mess up like that. Thus, we must not be interested at his current salary.
 
P

Prince_XY

Starter
#18
#18
Capt. Factorial said:
But if we don't trade the trade exception for him, then use the trade exception to grab him off waivers, we messed up. And PDA is known to be a salary cap guru; he wouldn't mess up like that. Thus, we must not be interested at his current salary.
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Very good if it means PDA will likely not be interested on Kirilenko.

Kirilenko WAS good. He could have been a big help some 5 years ago, but NOT NOW on his current level of play. We don't even have minutes for him to play, with Casspi (playing awesomely like the veteran bench SF we needed) And he is another insignificant signing, another undersized PF to add to the logjam at PF position, if we think of playing him as a PF.

This is more like a Petrie kind of acquisition if it happens.
 
S

swisshh

Starter
#19
#19
I am not sure the Kings can trade their Trade Exception for Kirilenko. But my only basis for that is that it won't work in any trade machine attempt. =P The other reason they won't trade him for the TE is that Philly is jsut offering more in return in either draft picks or a young asset.

I don't see how it's a salary snafu to use the exception to take him off of waivers. Either in trade or in waivers, it uses up the exception and the salary is low enough to leave the team under the Tax line. AK's contract ends this year, so it has no future impact on the team's salary.

But you're overlooking the last thing in my post. If you acquire AK with the TE then you have his 3.3 mil ender to trade at the mid-season deadline. With DWill, you now have 9+ mil in enders to offer in trade for an asset of higher interest and value (Jeff Green/Paul Milsap), and if you include a Reggie Evans in there then you start to get to Al Horford levels of ending contracts.

This would tie up salary with Green or Horford, but you'd be doing it to get high quality talent back that you wouldn't be able to acquire otherwise.
 
P

Prince_XY

Starter
#20
#20
swisshh said:
But you're overlooking the last thing in my post. If you acquire AK with the TE then you have his 3.3 mil ender to trade at the mid-season deadline. With DWill, you now have 9+ mil in enders to offer in trade for an asset of higher interest and value (Jeff Green/Paul Milsap), and if you include a Reggie Evans in there then you start to get to Al Horford levels of ending contracts.

This would tie up salary with Green or Horford, but you'd be doing it to get high quality talent back that you wouldn't be able to acquire otherwise.
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Wow.

Nice plan.

If this is the case, I am all for taking him.
 
Capt. Factorial

Capt. Factorial

trifolium contra tempestatem subrigere certum est
Staff member
#21
#21
swisshh said:
I don't see how it's a salary snafu to use the exception to take him off of waivers. Either in trade or in waivers, it uses up the exception and the salary is low enough to leave the team under the Tax line. AK's contract ends this year, so it has no future impact on the team's salary.
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The "snafu" isn't really from the salary side. The "snafu" is that the trade and the waiver scenarios have exactly the same outcome (Kirilenko in, trade exception out), but whereas the trade is a guarantee*, with waivers we're taking our chances. Why not take the sure thing (the trade route) if in fact we want him?

But you're overlooking the last thing in my post. If you acquire AK with the TE then you have his 3.3 mil ender to trade at the mid-season deadline. With DWill, you now have 9+ mil in enders to offer in trade for an asset of higher interest and value (Jeff Green/Paul Milsap), and if you include a Reggie Evans in there then you start to get to Al Horford levels of ending contracts.

This would tie up salary with Green or Horford, but you'd be doing it to get high quality talent back that you wouldn't be able to acquire otherwise.
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Here you are correct, but what I was concerned about in my comment was whether it makes sense for us to try to get Kirilenko off of waivers, not whether it makes sense for us to try to get Kirilenko period.


Whether we should grab Kirilenko solely as a trade chip is something I don't have strong feelings about. You're correct that it would allow us to match larger contracts with enders for a deadline deal. But if we are unable to consummate a deadline deal (for instance, is Horford truly available for what we have to offer?) then we're stuck with extra salary. There's a risk-reward here that I'm not terribly comfortable evaluating because I don't know what sorts of players are truly available if we only had a bit more outgoing salary to make the cap numbers work, and I don't know how averse the ownership is to carrying potentially "dead weight" salary to try to finagle a deal. So I'm not about to advocate strongly either way on that one.


*Why do I say the trade is a "guarantee"? The reasoning starts with the fact that rumors are heavy that the Nets are trying to dump AK. He's not playing, he's unhappy, he's skipping out on the current road trip for "personal reasons", sources think he's played his last game for the Nets. He's only under contract for this year at $3.3M, so he's not exactly the kind of guy you trade under the assumption that you CAN get something of value back. And it's not like Philly actually wants him as rumors have them waiving him immediately after the trade. Hence, Philly is willing to "burn" money on AK to what purpose? Only to get some sort of asset from the Nets. In this case the asset is rumored to be Karasev. But the point is that Philly would only do this if they felt they were clearly winning the non-AK portion of the trade. If so, then Brooklyn would have to assume it was losing that portion. It could be something like Karasev for a second rounder, but it's the kind of deal Brooklyn wouldn't do minus the opportunity to dump AK. The structure of the rumored deals is such that Brooklyn has to prefer trading AK for nothing to trading AK+Karasev to Philly.
 
G

Gilles

Starter
#23
#23
Another point mane people are missing, Philly are below salary floor, so for them it's not "let's pay $3.3 million to get a look at Karasev" situation. It's "we are getting Karasev for free and raising our team salary closer to salary floor, while Nets save $9.4 million". Sixers are the only team in this position, so AK might be really toxic at this point.
 
Tetsujin

Tetsujin

The Game Thread Dude
#24
#24
Gilles said:
Another point mane people are missing, Philly are below salary floor, so for them it's not "let's pay $3.3 million to get a look at Karasev" situation. It's "we are getting Karasev for free and raising our team salary closer to salary floor, while Nets save $9.4 million". Sixers are the only team in this position, so AK might be really toxic at this point.
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Well in that case, let's just give them D-Will for (the rightfully disgruntled) KJ McDaniels.
 
2

206Fan

All-Star
#25
#25
Tetsujin said:
Well in that case, let's just give them D-Will for (the rightfully disgruntled) KJ McDaniels.
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Uhh is there a button for this deal?! Should've been a 1st round pick.. his mom hates Philly's organization, KJ obviously doesn't like playing in Philly, Philly doesn't like to win, the Kings like to win, and I think this would be great!
 
SwishKing

SwishKing

G-League
#26
#26
206Fan said:
Uhh is there a button for this deal?! Should've been a 1st round pick.. his mom hates Philly's organization, KJ obviously doesn't like playing in Philly, Philly doesn't like to win, the Kings like to win, and I think this would be great!
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Yup, I would do this trade in a heartbeat. If he improves his shot, KJ's gonna be a great two way player (if not he still becomes a pretty god role-player). And if the 6ers are really serious about tanking D-Will's a perfect fit for them.
 
Showtime

Showtime

Starter
#27
#27
He didn't want to come here before (as a free agent), he won't want to play here now. Also, he's done. Casspi is more productive than AK is at this point. It isn't 2006 anymore.
 
2

206Fan

All-Star
#28
#28
SwishKing said:
Yup, I would do this trade in a heartbeat. If he improves his shot, KJ's gonna be a great two way player (if not he still becomes a pretty god role-player). And if the 6ers are really serious about tanking D-Will's a perfect fit for them.
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Yep. I'd do D-Will+ future 2nd rounder for KJ. KJ is going to be a great player once he gets out of Philly
 
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