AECOM named as lead architects

VF21

VF21

Super Moderator Emeritus
SME
#31
#31
Livinthedream said:
Unfortunately, due to our mid market size, Sacramento is underachieving. There is no charm in that.

It is more financially difficult to support baseball than hockey or football. But if we want to talk baseball, the fact that the builders of Raley Field failed to follow through with plans to make that ball park expandable has an impact. The A's are searching for a home and the lack of having a a ready made facility takes Sac out of the equation. It's much easier for the A's to make money to cover the cost of a new stadium in San Jose. Low stadium cost by moving to Sac would have been something we could pitch.

Sac shouldn't take themselves out of the hockey argument or any other opportunity simply because we can't envision it now.
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We can debate this forever, but it's not our vision at this point. It's the vision of the people who have put their money on the line. We're just along for the ride...
 
kennadog

kennadog

Dog On It!
#32
#32
Trueblood said:
I hear a lot of people saying that the mall isn't profitable so if that's so and there's no future for it, could they begin demolition before the EIR is done or would they have to completely finish the environmental process before taking it down?
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Absolutely not. If any work started before the EIR was finalized and the comment period passed, the city could not legally award funding to the arena. Believe me, this was pounded into my head over years of working on projects for the State and Feds.

However, they could do other things, like maybe not renewing leases or having tenants move to free up more of the arena needed space.
 
Trueblood

Trueblood

Bench
#33
#33
kennadog said:
Absolutely not. If any work started before the EIR was finalized and the comment period passed, the city could not legally award funding to the arena. Believe me, this was pounded into my head over years of working on projects for the State and Feds.

However, they could do other things, like maybe not renewing leases or having tenants move to free up more of the arena needed space.
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Ok. Thanks for the info. That's what I thought but as someone who wants this expedited as much as possible, I was hoping that it was an option.

I wonder how long it will take to demolish the mall and whatever outlaying buildings that need to be done away with in order for the arena and other development to start up. Obviously dynamite isn't an option since there is so much in close proximity but I'm thinking if they can work around the clock, the thing will be gone in time for an August or September of 2014 groundbreaking. That would allow for the building to open in time for the start of the 2016 season.
 
kennadog

kennadog

Dog On It!
#34
#34
The biggest expeditor will be if Steinberg can get legislation passed that limits the timeframe for lawsuits after the EIR comment period has passed and the EIR is finally approved. Its been done before for other arenas and stadiums (think LA football stadium.)

There's an awful lot to be done before any work can begin besides getting pass the EIR. They seem to be working on it as fast as possible. They need the engineering/soils report, complete architectural designs, a budget based on all costs & the actual design, financial analysis for the city, all legal documents ready to sign (this will be voluminous and subject to negotiations), an actual vote by the city council to approve everything and sign all documents for a legally binding commitment of funds, creation of the non-profit to own the parking assets, sale of the bonds, etc.

There's just a lot that has to be accomplished before ground can be broken. I'll give it up to city consultants and staff, though. They've been amazingly fast on everything so far. They must be burning midnight oil like crazy.
 
Bricklayer

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
#35
#35
kennadog said:
The biggest expeditor will be if Steinberg can get legislation passed that limits the timeframe for lawsuits after the EIR comment period has passed and the EIR is finally approved. Its been done before for other arenas and stadiums (think LA football stadium.)

There's an awful lot to be done before any work can begin besides getting pass the EIR. They seem to be working on it as fast as possible. They need the engineering/soils report, complete architectural designs, a budget based on all costs & the actual design, financial analysis for the city, all legal documents ready to sign (this will be voluminous and subject to negotiations), an actual vote by the city council to approve everything and sign all documents for a legally binding commitment of funds, creation of the non-profit to own the parking assets, sale of the bonds, etc.

There's just a lot that has to be accomplished before ground can be broken. I'll give it up to city consultants and staff, though. They've been amazingly fast on everything so far. They must be burning midnight oil like crazy.
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sigh. so many little rules and regulations to get anything done in California.

I think things worked better pre-democracy when you just had one ruler who claimed divine right and just got stuff done. You -- go build me a pyramid! And the guy scurries off to build you a pyramid under fear of death. It worked. Things got done.

Accordingly I hereby offer myself as divine and absolute ruler of California if it will help cut through the red tape. I'm highly qualified, have the ego for it, and have always wanted to say off with their heads.
 
Trueblood

Trueblood

Bench
#36
#36
One thing that I saw in Steinberg's bill that I like is that the judge is forced to rule within 175 days from the end of the EIR process. I knew that the anti arena people had up to 3 months to file a lawsuit based on the EIR findings but I didn't realize that the verdict process was expedited as well. My worry was always that they would wait the full 3 months to file just to delay things as much as possible then we'd be looking at the possibility of a long, drawn out court battle with appeals and what not. That's what happened in Brooklyn.

So this means that if the EIR is done in April, the judge has to give a verdict by October. That gives us 25 months to get the arena done in a worst case scenario. If no lawsuit is filed, we break ground in July giving us ample time to open for 2016.

I guess at that point it really boils down to how long it takes to demo the mall and conduct excavation.
 
Warhawk

Warhawk

Give blood and save a life!
Staff member
#37
#37
Bricklayer said:
sigh. so many little rules and regulations to get anything done in California.

I think things worked better pre-democracy when you just had one ruler who claimed divine right and just got stuff done. You -- go build me a pyramid! And the guy scurries off to build you a pyramid under fear of death. It worked. Things got done.

Accordingly I hereby offer myself as divine and absolute ruler of California if it will help cut through the red tape. I'm highly qualified, have the ego for it, and have always wanted to say off with their heads.
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I bow before our new California overlord.

Might as well, as if I didn't I'd lose my head anyways. :p
 
J

JB_kings

Starter
#38
#38
Trueblood said:
One thing that I saw in Steinberg's bill that I like is that the judge is forced to rule within 175 days from the end of the EIR process. I knew that the anti arena people had up to 3 months to file a lawsuit based on the EIR findings but I didn't realize that the verdict process was expedited as well. My worry was always that they would wait the full 3 months to file just to delay things as much as possible then we'd be looking at the possibility of a long, drawn out court battle with appeals and what not. That's what happened in Brooklyn.

So this means that if the EIR is done in April, the judge has to give a verdict by October. That gives us 25 months to get the arena done in a worst case scenario. If no lawsuit is filed, we break ground in July giving us ample time to open for 2016.

I guess at that point it really boils down to how long it takes to demo the mall and conduct excavation.
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If they break ground, I doubt that the commissioner is going to be counting months to completion. They just don't want to see things drag out in court for years. If Steinberg gets his bill signed, they break ground in 2014.
 
Trueblood

Trueblood

Bench
#39
#39
JB_kings said:
If they break ground, I doubt that the commissioner is going to be counting months to completion. They just don't want to see things drag out in court for years. If Steinberg gets his bill signed, they break ground in 2014.
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I'm just hoping for a way to complete the arena in time for the start of the 2016 season. It's not the end of the world if it opens in January or February. Miami, Toronto and DC all opened their arenas at least a month into the season but an opening night start would be cool. That's why I'm wondering about the time frame on demo and excavation.
 
Warhawk

Warhawk

Give blood and save a life!
Staff member
#40
#40
Trueblood said:
I'm just hoping for a way to complete the arena in time for the start of the 2016 season. It's not the end of the world if it opens in January or February. Miami, Toronto and DC all opened their arenas at least a month into the season but an opening night start would be cool. That's why I'm wondering about the time frame on demo and excavation.
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Actually, a mid-season opening for the ESC would be better for the team I would think. You would be able to sell out early games like they try to most seasons, you could sell out the last games at the old arena, you could sell out the first games at the new arena, etc. More "milestones" to market.
 
Section 101

Section 101

All-Star
#41
#41
Warhawk said:
Actually, a mid-season opening for the ESC would be better for the team I would think. You would be able to sell out early games like they try to most seasons, you could sell out the last games at the old arena, you could sell out the first games at the new arena, etc. More "milestones" to market.
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Negative. They will need a few events top hash out the logistics of moving people, food, sales etc before opening for an nba game. the last thing anyone wants is a huge mess for the opening game at the new ESC.
 
Warhawk

Warhawk

Give blood and save a life!
Staff member
#42
#42
Section 101 said:
Negative. They will need a few events top hash out the logistics of moving people, food, sales etc before opening for an nba game. the last thing anyone wants is a huge mess for the opening game at the new ESC.
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I didn't say that the first event had to be a game, did I?
 
Warhawk

Warhawk

Give blood and save a life!
Staff member
#44
#44
Section 101 said:
No. But if your talking mid season then it most likely would be. You also want to use pre season for the fans to get to know their best way in and out of the new ESC,
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Eh, they can have pre-opening-event tours of the facility if they really wanted to help folks learn how to get in and out, etc. I really think our back and forth is making a mountain of a molehill. There are always away trips filled with Disney on Ice and other events they can start with mid-season. We will agree to disagree and move on. I think people can figure out their way into a front door without too much hand-holding.
 
Section 101

Section 101

All-Star
#45
#45
Warhawk said:
Eh, they can have pre-opening-event tours of the facility if they really wanted to help folks learn how to get in and out, etc. I really think our back and forth is making a mountain of a molehill. There are always away trips filled with Disney on Ice and other events they can start with mid-season. We will agree to disagree and move on. I think people can figure out their way into a front door without too much hand-holding.
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It's not just the into the ESC. The traffic getting in/out. Which freeway, exit/on ramp, street to take, overflow parking for filled lots? Adjustments to traffic routing etc. You won't get the same from other shows as you will from a soldout NBA game.
 
VF21

VF21

Super Moderator Emeritus
SME
#46
#46
Section 101 said:
It's not just the into the ESC. The traffic getting in/out. Which freeway, exit/on ramp, street to take, overflow parking for filled lots? Adjustments to traffic routing etc. You won't get the same from other shows as you will from a soldout NBA game.
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??? A sell-out is a sell-out, no?

I don't think people will have that much trouble. I know I'll be going by the site whenever I'm in Sacramento just to check the progress and I'm pretty sure others will, too. It's not as if the ESC will just pop up onto the site overnight with no advance warning. It will be on the news, the focus of lots of discussions, etc.
 
Section 101

Section 101

All-Star
#47
#47
VF21 said:
??? A sell-out is a sell-out, no?

I don't think people will have that much trouble. I know I'll be going by the site whenever I'm in Sacramento just to check the progress and I'm pretty sure others will, too. It's not as if the ESC will just pop up onto the site overnight with no advance warning. It will be on the news, the focus of lots of discussions, etc.
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Not all sellouts are equal. The layout changes so the number of seats change. NBA sellout is going to be several thousand more people. For the concerts you lose the seats behind the stage and some on the sides. For shows like motocross/monster trucks you lose many of the lower level seats as they increase the area for the show. You notice a big difference between 17k and 12-13k people when you leave a Kings game.

Yes people will know about the arena. But trust me it's not so easy to just say cars go in this way and out this way. And the people setting it up aren't the brightest out there. I can't tell you how many times they changed things going in and out of the current arena that just plain didn't make sense. This is over the past 15 years that I have parked in the same place. Add in city streets and parking lots spread out and it will frustrate and confuse a lot of people.

The first few games at the ESC will be important to many of the people. Yes some will go extra early, but you want to mitigate the number who will be late due to parking issues.
 
Warhawk

Warhawk

Give blood and save a life!
Staff member
#48
#48
Section 101 said:
Not all sellouts are equal. The layout changes so the number of seats change. NBA sellout is going to be several thousand more people. For the concerts you lose the seats behind the stage and some on the sides. For shows like motocross/monster trucks you lose many of the lower level seats as they increase the area for the show. You notice a big difference between 17k and 12-13k people when you leave a Kings game.

Yes people will know about the arena. But trust me it's not so easy to just say cars go in this way and out this way. And the people setting it up aren't the brightest out there. I can't tell you how many times they changed things going in and out of the current arena that just plain didn't make sense. This is over the past 15 years that I have parked in the same place. Add in city streets and parking lots spread out and it will frustrate and confuse a lot of people.

The first few games at the ESC will be important to many of the people. Yes some will go extra early, but you want to mitigate the number who will be late due to parking issues.
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I think that while all of what you mention is somewhat true, everyone knows that these issues potentially exist and I am sure that they will work out some means of communicating to folks how/where to park, etc. Everyone who goes to a game or event at any facility knows parking takes a little time to figure out and there will be lots of publicity leading up to the opening events to educate everyone on the options. I don't think they will push back opening the ESC in January to the summer just to avoid opening the building with a Kings game..... :rolleyes: Folks are smart enough to figure it out.

Really, I think this is much ado about nothing. And I am done discussing it.
 
L

Livinthedream

All-Star
#49
#49
Section 101 said:
Not all sellouts are equal. The layout changes so the number of seats change. NBA sellout is going to be several thousand more people. For the concerts you lose the seats behind the stage and some on the sides. For shows like motocross/monster trucks you lose many of the lower level seats as they increase the area for the show. You notice a big difference between 17k and 12-13k people when you leave a Kings game.

Yes people will know about the arena. But trust me it's not so easy to just say cars go in this way and out this way. And the people setting it up aren't the brightest out there. I can't tell you how many times they changed things going in and out of the current arena that just plain didn't make sense. This is over the past 15 years that I have parked in the same place. Add in city streets and parking lots spread out and it will frustrate and confuse a lot of people.

The first few games at the ESC will be important to many of the people. Yes some will go extra early, but you want to mitigate the number who will be late due to parking issues.
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I sure hope there aren't so many issues that it would make opening a new arena a disaster. I think that parking, traffic flow, parking flow and what have you are part of the actual design process, so there shouldn't be too many surprises. The city/team will hire people to direct traffic as needed. As far as little things going wrong, that is to be expected. But we are not inventing the wheel here. Experienced people will be in place who have done these things before. I'm not anticipating anything catastrophic, even if an NBA game were the first big event. Nothing that would take away from the game at least. I'd prefer that the opening game be the first big event. If things need to be tweaked down the road to make it more effecient, then so be it.
 
Trueblood

Trueblood

Bench
#53
#53
JB_kings said:
KJ stated yesterday in the press conference that breaking ground was to be in August 2014.
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That would be awesome. I just don't see it though if we have lawsuits. The EIR will have to be done by February if they want to guarantee an August ground breaking.

OTOH, if the EIR is done in April and there are no lawsuits, they could be ready to roll as early as July assuming mall demolition can be done quickly.
 
chasen4r1

chasen4r1

Starter
#59
#59
Livinthedream said:
Anyone else catch this? I'm trying to envision this and I can't wrap my head around it. Definitely need to see some renderings now.


Rob McAllister@Rob_McAllister
Vivek says arena will be able to open up to have another 10k people for events. That's on top of 18k seated inside.
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Yeah I read something today that had a small mention of that as well. Extremely curious as to what this arena will look like. Sounds pretty unique, if you ask me.

During the press conference it was also revealed that their new indoor/outdoor arena will be a cash-free facility. They expect every ticket taker and concession stand to work off people’s cell phones.
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http://fieldofteams.csnbayarea.com/2013/09/24/the-top-5-quotes-from-shaqs-introductory-presser/
 
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