2018 draft fits with this team

Discussion in 'Personnel moves' started by sactowndog, Nov 13, 2017.

  1. bajaden

    bajaden Well-Known Member

    I think who goes number one will depend on whose drafting. I don't know if you've seen Young play, but if not, then you need to. Skill wise, there's not another PG in the draft with the instincts and skill level of Young. Yes, Sexton is a better athlete, but size wise, the only difference is muscle. Both are close to the same height. Muscle can be added easier than skill. I was in love with Sexton, but now, there's no comparison between the two. Young is probably, other than maybe Doncic, the most impactful player in the draft. Neither Doncic or Young is an elite athlete, but you know what, the HOF is full of players that wern't elite athlete's, and the NBA graveyard is littered with terrific athlete's that didn't make it in the league.

    I agree that Porter won't slide out of the top five, especially if he's healthy by the time of the combine, and he's able to look good in his individual workouts. If your asking me who the best SF after Porter and Doncic are off the board, I would say Mikal Bridges, not Miles Bridges, although I do like him. I would take either Mikal or Miles before Knox. To be honest, I'm not totally sure what Knox is, a SF or a PF. Not that it matters too much in today's NBA. I'd certainly grab Jaren Jackson if he's sitting there before either Miles or Mikal. I'll figure out what to do with a hundred big's later. Just like I'd have a hard time passing on Young despite Fox and Mason. Lets wait and see who shines in the tournament. Trust me, if Young continues his string of great games, and kills it in the tournament, he'll probably be in the discussion for the top three picks in the draft. I can't remember seeing anyone quite like him in all the years I've been watching college ball.
    Telemachus likes this.
  2. Jimbob

    Jimbob Well-Known Member

    As I no longer live in the States, I do not see a lot of games. I do however watch a lot of clips and not just highlights. I love the college game.
    I appreciate your take on Young, if he continues to shine through the year and hopefully takes Oklahoma a good distance into the dance then I have no problem taking him regardless of our stock pile of guards. We need impact players and trades can happen to sort out crowds.
  3. twslam07

    twslam07 Well-Known Member

    Not that it's likely to happen, but would you trade Fox for Trae Young?

    Just imagining drafting Porter Jr and having Young at PG. Young, Hield, & Porter would provide some serious space on the floor, and then you hope one of Cauley-Stein, Labissiere, or Giles can become that roleplaying C who can defend the pick & roll, protect the rim, hold down the boards, and spread the floor.
    Last edited: Dec 27, 2017
    206Fan likes this.
  4. twslam07

    twslam07 Well-Known Member

    Ayton's physical profile is certainly impressive, but his defense has been concerning thus far. I'm not sure why Blob is praising him on this side of the ball considering his struggles thus far.

    I'm starting to move further away from drafting big men high in the draft. Just like you see some NFL teams drift away from drafting RBs high in the draft (among other positions). Look at the top teams in the league right now. Who are their best players?

    BOS: Irving, Brown, Tatum, & Horford
    TOR: Lowry, DeRozan, & Ibaka
    CLE: LeBron, Love, Thomas, & Crowder
    GSW: Curry, Durant, Green, & Thompson
    HOU: Harden, Paul, & Gordon
    SAS: Leonard, Aldridge, & Gasol

    Which of these teams are being led by a dominant big man? Other than the Spurs who have arguably the greatest coach we've ever seen (also having other useful players like Anderson, Ginobli, Gay, Green, Mills, & Murray), none of them do. The teams that are led by a dominant big man are as follows:

    DET (Drummond): 19-14
    DEN (Jokic): 19-15
    MIA (Whiteside): 18-16
    NYK (Porzingis): 17-16
    NOP (Davis & Cousins): 17-16
    PHI (Embiid & Simmons): 15-18
    UTA (Gobert): 15-20
    LAC (Griffin & Jordan): 14-19

    The range of wins if you were to extrapolate those records for 82 games would be 35-47 wins. That's very mediocre. This is what makes me want to shy away from drafting big men so early in the draft. If a big man comes along who is just an absolute freak, then yeah there might be an exception, but I don't see Ayton as that guy. He often doesn't box out (making his rebounding numbers a little fools gold when it transfers to the NBA), he more often uses power instead of skill to score (not going to translate as well to the NBA), and he struggles to protect the rim/paint, so if his rebounding & scoring are not going to seamlessly translate to the NBA and he struggles defensively, what do you really have? You have a worse rebounding/defending but better shooting Dwight Howard.

    I'm still on board with targeting Porter with our pick. He's a very skilled, athletic, tall/long, versatile wing who is a gifted shooter/scorer (something we desperately need).

    Fox / Mason
    Hield / Bogdanovic / Richardson
    Porter / Jackson
    Labissiere / Giles
    Cauley-Stein / Papagiannis
    sactowndog likes this.
  5. Blob

    Blob Well-Known Member

    I remember Embiid quite well from his days at Kansas. Ayton is better at relative stage.

    One thing I will say about Young is he does have a very nice way of slithering his way to the hoop. This is what Lonzo Bust could obviously not do at UCLA. Young almost uses his thin frame to his advantage to get through cracks in the defense not there for sturdy players.

    Young also have perfect arc on his shot. Perfect shot really. He reminds me of a young Aaron Brooks. in a way I am just weary of his frame and athleticism. A lot of what he is doing to razzle and dazzle will not translate to NBA if he cannot deal with the physicality of the defender. He's also going to get abused defensively.
    Last edited: Dec 27, 2017
  6. Joshoua

    Joshoua Well-Known Member

    If your bigs are bad defenders you’re ****ed and I don’t think Ayton is elite offensively. You easily take Doncic at 1 easily I take Ayton 2, Bagley 3, and Porter 4.

    Hopefully Youg keeps up his play and punches Porter to 5 for some pg hungry teams like Phoenix or Orlando.
  7. Joshoua

    Joshoua Well-Known Member

    No he’s not and it’s not close
  8. bajaden

    bajaden Well-Known Member

    I think if your going to draft a big man, especially a so called true center, he has to be a very skilled player. No one wants a low post bully ball center in today's league. It's all about spreading the floor, and driving and dishing. The last thing you want is a 7 foot 280 center living under the basket on offense. Oh you can move him away from the basket to help create space, but no one will guard him on the perimeter and now you have five defenders guarding four players. The league has recognized the importance of the three point shot. Kids in grade school and highschool have recognized the importance of the three point shot, and as a result, college's are turning out more and more players that can consistently shoot the three, and as a result of that, the NBA game has changed. You can't just trade baskets when your hitting two's and the other team is hitting three's.

    That means the traditional center has become a relic. Unless you can really impact the game in some other way, like being an outstanding defender, or rebounder, you'll find yourself siting on the bench, or in the G-League. That said, I think Ayton is capable of playing in the NBA, and perhaps even be an impact player. He's a very good athlete with excellent lateral quickness. His defense may be somewhat lacking at the moment, but he has the tools to be a good defender (doesn't mean he will be). Offensively, he's already a good player with the ability to score in the post, but most importantly, the ability to score away from the basket. If you plant him on the perimeter, they'll have to guard him. Yes, he's still rough around the edges in some area's, but I like his total tool package and total potential. He has one of the higher floors of the front runners.

    Finally, if we walk out of this draft with Porter, I'm a happy man. That's contingent on his being totally healthy of course. Prior to the injury he was a very good athlete. Of course it's impossible to predict where we'll be picking right now. It could be top five, or it could be somewhere between 5 and 10. I think either way, we'll get a good player, but of course, like everyone else, I'd like to get a game changer. I'll tell you this, if we end up picking at say number 7 or 8, and Young slides down like Curry did, I'd take him in a heartbeat and figure out the rest later. He has abilities that you can't teach. I firmly believe that if he can get stronger, and he can, and stay healthy, he can be a franchise player, and an all star.
  9. kingsboi

    kingsboi Well-Known Member

    What exactly is Ayton better at?

    If Young can consistently put the ball in the hoop at the Pro level, he will have a place in the league despite his defensive flaws.
  10. Jimbob

    Jimbob Well-Known Member

    I'm not sure what we have in Fox. I know he's currently injured, but still I really thought by now we would have seen glimpses that would have us all saying he's the guy going forward. Unfortunately, just like the role of the modern day big man debate, a PG that lacks a lethal shot is also a question mark.

    I can't wait to see Giles play. I hope Joerger gives him significant minutes so that we have an idea what he brings. Our other bigs underwhelm, but yeah if Giles is the player we hope he is then a team consisting of Young, Buddy, Bogdan, Porter and Giles sounds good.
  11. bajaden

    bajaden Well-Known Member

    Well, I wasn't comparing Ayton to Young. Personally I love Young and if your asking me who I would choose between the two, I would probably choose Young. Plus, I'm not sure he's as much of a defensive liability as some are making him out to be. Let me put it this way. He's a better defender at Oklahoma than Dennis Smith was at N. C. State, or than Fultz was at Washington, and both those guys are better athlete's than Young. When you consider the offensive load Young is carrying and that his usage rate is one of the highest in college, I think you have to cut him a little slack if he takes a little time off on defense once in a while. When he's focused, he's played decent to good defense at times. His lateral quickness is not bad. I do think putting on about 10 pounds of muscle will help him though.
  12. Telemachus

    Telemachus Well-Known Member

    He was responding to Blob, who said that Ayton better than Embiid at the same point in their careers (something I would disagree with).
  13. bajaden

    bajaden Well-Known Member

    Ahhh, well I have Blob on my ignore list, so I wasn't able, (thank God) to read what he wrote. As to his saying that Ayton is better than Embiid at the same point in time, I guess ignorance is bliss..
    KingsFanSince85 and Tetsujin like this.
  14. KingsSelecao

    KingsSelecao Active Member

    Probably looking at one of the Bridges, Sexton or Bamba. The Lottery will be crowded this year. The Kings will win their usual 28-34 games. The Only possible game changers are in the Top 5. Kings will probably get a nice player, but a franchise leader? Probably not. Unless, the Kings start trading away all the vets. Kings will win some games agains tough playoff teams(Dubs, Cavs) and Lose against teams just as bad.
  15. sactowndog

    sactowndog Active Member

    We need wings who have length and can shoot.
    Joshoua likes this.
  16. Joshoua

    Joshoua Well-Known Member

    I agree Doncic and Porter head that list with Bridges down further
  17. Joshoua

    Joshoua Well-Known Member

    I wouldn’t sleep on Jarren Jackson from MSU he will be very good and a great fit with WCS. He’s elite defensively he’s number 2 in the nation in defensive plus minus and is extremely quick. He also flashes on offense as a shooter shooting 34% on 34 attempts but is shooting 84% from the line on 4 attempts. He’s also a solid passer and rebounder
  18. Sac.1989

    Sac.1989 Well-Known Member

    we need to be top 5 in this draft. Has to happen
    206Fan, Čarolija and Joshoua like this.
  19. Jimbob

    Jimbob Well-Known Member

    I'm beginning to believe that this is a pretty good draft. I don't think I have heard anyone say that yet, and it's debatable, I could be wrong. I also think judging by our early reviews it is more than 5 players deep.
    Also agree our biggest glaring need are wings with length and can shoot. At present and assuming he bounces back from his injury Porter interest me the most. I need to start watching more film on Doncic. I assumed he was a somewhat repetitious with Bogdan, but I like Bogdan and maybe they are not that similar.
    Last edited: Dec 29, 2017
  20. Joshoua

    Joshoua Well-Known Member

    Nope definitely and would thrive with each other. You needs multiple ball handlers now and have 2 great pick and roll players like these two would be huge. Also at 6’8 Doncic pushes Bogdan to SG giving us great size there
  21. bajaden

    bajaden Well-Known Member

    Yeah, they're similar in that both are very good ball handlers, both are good shooters, both are very very good passers, both have very high basketball IQ, and both are team players. The major difference is that Doncic appears to be a better overall player than Bog's and is 6'8", while Bog's is 6'6". I think these are similarities that you want. I'd like a whole team full of players that similar. As for the draft, yes, it's going to be a very good draft. It may be a better draft than last years draft, just that the top players aren't PG's this year. It's more of a big man's draft with some SF's and combo players sprinkled in. Most scouts have broken it down to tiers with Luka Doncic and DeAndre Ayton being in the top tier, Marvin Bagley, Michael Porter, and now Trae Young being in the 2nd tier. Jaren Jackson, Miles Bridges, Collin Sexton and Bamba in the 3rd tier, followed by Mikal Bridges, Robert Williams, and Wendal Carter in the 4th tier. That's not the way I would have them, and it's all just speculation right now.

    There are some scouts that now have Young in the top three, and some that have Mikal Bridges ahead of Miles Bridges and in the 2nd tier. Personally I have Mikal ahead of Miles as well, but it's a close call. Mikal is the better defender and Miles is the better athlete. Pick your poison.
    Čarolija and Jimbob like this.
  22. Sactown ExPat

    Sactown ExPat Member

    I am rapidly getting tunnel vision on Young and Doncic. I really think we would be best served by coming away with one of the facilitators in this draft. It could very well be wishful thinking, but I am starting to get a strong ‘98 type of vibe for the coming offseason. I think we have another blockbuster trade in us, and we can sign Hezonja at SF if we want him. I just really hope the draft breaks our way and we can get Young or Doncic—we really need that “straw that stirs the drink” type of player. I think Fox could fit as a secondary ballhandler and defender, especially with Doncic.
    Last edited: Dec 29, 2017
  23. Joshoua

    Joshoua Well-Known Member

    That’s why I’d do let’s say 5-Hield for 1 to get Doncic sign Hezonja a go from there. But I don’t think a team trades out of 1 unless the other pick is top 3
    Jimbob likes this.
  24. Folsomkingsfan

    Folsomkingsfan Active Member

    So many guys in this class with ridiculously high ceilings that fill all sorts of needs for us. But I guess the the thought of watching George Hill and Zach Randolph play 30 minutes a night and lead us to 30 wins and a mid to late lottery pick is just as tantalizing.
    206Fan and Joshoua like this.
  25. Jimbob

    Jimbob Well-Known Member

    I meant to hit reply not like, not that I dislike the idea.
    I read somewhere that Philli could make Saric available. Imagine Doncic, Bogdan, Hezonja, Saric, Papa..pretty much an all Balkan team.
    Joshoua likes this.
  26. Joshoua

    Joshoua Well-Known Member

    Well I meant to like this, smh haha.

    But Donici, Bogdan, Saric that’s an all pass Spurs type team right there that will sell out Golden 1.

    Saric for Hill is the type of trade we should make that’s a great trade Saric can play PF next to WCS making us versatile.

    Also helps that Philly will be in the playoff hunt and need a guard like Hill who can play off ball or lead the second unit
  27. Jimbob

    Jimbob Well-Known Member

    With Holmes and now Booker at PF, Saric might be best off elsewhere. Also Simmons is 6'10", Philli uses him at PG but once Fultz is up and running who knows. Philli is loaded.
    If we could somehow get Saric off them without including any of our most valued youth, that is a trade I could get behind.
  28. Blob

    Blob Well-Known Member

    Inappropriate use of cliche. Mental lightweight and Lonzo Ball's #1 Fan. So when you read (or ignore) this guy players projections for 2018, keep that in mind. I trashed Lonzo Bust for 2-3 months pre-draft and hyped Donovan for 2-3 months in contrast to overwhelming sentiment to the contrary, that's the key. I wasn't band jumping, I was on my own bandwagon as always. Same goes for a lot of guys that I have liked in contrary to popular sentiment like Steven Adams, Myles Turner and Domantas Sabonis ALL of whom I wanted the Kings to draft and have subsequently gone on to substantially exceed projections before the draft.

    Bajaden is mediocre to below average at projecting NBA players, so he throws a lot of words and qualifiers at you to conceal his mediocrity. This is a sign of uncertainty and waffling and feigning insight when you have NONE. Anyone who has Doncic ahead of Ayton doesn't know what they are talking about. FACT! And don't even take my word for it. In fact, disbelieve me if you are inclined to do so. Then just remember to admit when you were wrong. ;)

    I have not read ONE scouting report nor have had listened to ONE analysis from some sore of college guru on Doncic or Ayton. I don't care what anyone else says. I am telling you what I know to be true based on 25 years of watching the NBA the only sport I follow. Ayton is a transcendent talent and the #1 pick in the draft. Doncic is nice. But he's a taller version of Boggy more refined at a younger age . That's nice but thats nothing special compared to Ayton.
  29. Capt. Factorial

    Capt. Factorial Cantry Member Staff Member Contributor

    1) Baja is far from Lonzo Ball's #1 fan. He has a healthy dose of skepticism surrounding Ball, and, if I recall correctly, had Fox in front of Ball in his rankings before the draft.

    2a) The use of qualifiers is often used to indicate that one is uncertain. Most draft observers know that it is hard to be certain about which players will turn out to be good and which players won't. It's quite a tough job, which is why every team in the entire NBA blows draft picks all the time. Every single one. In fact, the only person I know of who has (or believes that they have) a 100% hit rate on projecting prospects is you. Somewhat irritatingly, you point out just how smart you think you are in about 70% of the posts that you make. One of these days, somebody might believe you, but to me, well, you make Muhammad Ali look humble. And that's a lot worse than being honestly and forthcomingly uncertain, believe me.

    2b) Gotta love that certainty you have on Lonzo Ball. I mean, the kid has already posted two triple-doubles and become the youngest player to post a triple-double and you're calling him a bust 30 games into his career. I really wonder how you're going to talk your way out of this one once it becomes clear that Ball is a bonafide star.

    3) I'm not exactly sure when it became OK to rip into other posters for having different opinions on prospects. Nobody is keeping score. Nobody wins. This is supposed to be a discussion, not a penis-measuring contest. Save that for when you're at a urinal. Your leash to call people things on the order of "mental lightweight" has become very very short.
    Tetsujin, Sac.1989, bajaden and 3 others like this.
  30. 206Fan

    206Fan Well-Known Member

    If we want Saric, one of Buddy, Bogdan, or WCS is gone. Don't think they would settle for Hill when they already have Ben Simmons, Jerryd Bayless, TJ McConnell, and not to mention Markelle Fultz at PG.. At SG they're locked in with JJ Reddick starting and they're able to use those PGs in the backup role.

    They don't have a need for Hill unless Fultz's injury is really bad. Even without him, Ben Simmons has been able to play full-time pointguard and they haven't really suffered at the guard positions.

    Philly is just absolutely loaded.

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