Deadline Deals

19 is doable. 25 is unrealistic. If you want to back pedal on your 25 PPG, that's fine (and smart), but if you're confident in your belief that Bogdan is a 25 PPG player, we can do a signature bet at 25.0 PPG or higher in a season by the end of his third year.
I said 19-21 was his floor and 25 is possible with improvement. I wouldn’t bet 25 because I’m fairly risk adverse.

I’m trying to figure out how we do a sig bet with odds. Lol. I’d put it at a 100% chance he hits 19, a 80% chance he hits 21 and a 40% chance he hits the 24-26 range.
 
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I’m trying to figure out how we do a sig bet with odds. Lol. I’d put it at a 100% chance he hits 19, a 80% chance he hits 21 and a 40% chance he hits the 24-26 range.
the only objective way would be adjusting the length of time the loser of the bet is required to keep the signature. a subjective way to account for odds would be to change the severity of the signature, ie "sactowndog is a good prognosticator" with odds would be "sacdowndog is the coolest, best, not even kidding prognosticator ever".
 

bajaden

Hall of Famer
Bogs a 25 PPG scorer? No way. His ceiling is 16-17 PPG IMO
No offense, but how preytell do you know that? I doubt that anyone predicted that Booker would be as prolific a scorer as he's turned out to be. Right now, Bog's is a more efficient scorer than Booker, the difference is the amount of shots they take. Per 36 Bog's is averaging 10 pts less than Booker, but he's also taking 8 fewer shots. Give his those shots at the same efficiency and his point total will be very close to Booker's. I realize that's a simplistic approach, but it's very possible as well. Whether Bog's becomes as prolific a scorer as Booker depends more on how he plays the game than on ability. Give Bogdanovic 20 shots a game, and I'll guarantee you that he'll average more than 20 pts a game. He's too efficient not to.

The problem with that scenario is that Bog's is too much of a team player, unlike Booker who looks to score more. But lets be honest here, just because Booker scores more, that doesn't make him the better player. Lets give Bog's three years in the league like Booker has and then pass judgement.
 
I said 19-21 was his floor and 25 is possible with improvement. I wouldn’t bet 25 because I’m fairly risk adverse.

I’m trying to figure out how we do a sig bet with odds. Lol. I’d put it at a 100% chance he hits 19, a 80% chance he hits 21 and a 40% chance he hits the 24-26 range.
100% chance he hits 19? He's never averaged 19 ppg once in his career, not even at a per 36 minute pace. Wouldn't surprise me if he did since his game is so polished already, but don't think I'd go into a bet thinking it's a guarantee.
 
No offense, but how preytell do you know that? I doubt that anyone predicted that Booker would be as prolific a scorer as he's turned out to be. Right now, Bog's is a more efficient scorer than Booker, the difference is the amount of shots they take. Per 36 Bog's is averaging 10 pts less than Booker, but he's also taking 8 fewer shots. Give his those shots at the same efficiency and his point total will be very close to Booker's. I realize that's a simplistic approach, but it's very possible as well. Whether Bog's becomes as prolific a scorer as Booker depends more on how he plays the game than on ability. Give Bogdanovic 20 shots a game, and I'll guarantee you that he'll average more than 20 pts a game. He's too efficient not to.

The problem with that scenario is that Bog's is too much of a team player, unlike Booker who looks to score more. But lets be honest here, just because Booker scores more, that doesn't make him the better player. Lets give Bog's three years in the league like Booker has and then pass judgement.
I don’t see Bogdan taking 20 craps he’s to unselfish to do that. Anyways hopefully Bogdan is a 3rd option for us that’s when we’ll be good
 
First off we are discussing facts. So not sure where settle down comes from.

In the last 10 Games he is already averaging 15.3 points a game on only 10 shots a game and 30 minutes. If he only ups his 3 point shot attempt to 6 a game which is barely average for a high percentage 3 point shooter he is at 18.9 pts a game on that fact alone (assuming 40% from 3).

If he attempts 8 3 point shots a game (which I think he should) then his average goes to 21.3 points a game.

Given the number of times I have seen
1) Bogs standing alone at the 3 pt line while our low IQ player force a shot.
2) not make defenses pay by going under the screen on the pick and roll.

Getting 5 more attempts a game is not unrealistic. That puts him at 21.3 (conservatively putting him at 40% shooting from deep). If he improves his step back 3 and ability to create off the dribble he could do more.

19-21 pts per game is the floor for Bogi assuming no more improvement just from playing with smarter people and making teams pay going under on the pick and roll.
He is getting those numbers on a BAD team where he has a green light to do what he likes. Hell the coach wants him to shoot more.

Ask yourself this, if on the Kings he had say Anthony Davis and say Dame Lillard, would he be getting more shots per game than he is getting now? I HIGHLY doubt he would.

Bogdan is a great TEAM player. Someone who takes what the defense gives him and he is not someone who is going to look to take 20 shots in a game. He would be a great complement next to a couple of stars because he will play off them and keep the defenses on their toes. He is a highly valuable type of player on a great team but he is not a 25ppg scorer on a good team. Sure he can do it on a bad team but I have seen him in the past when he has been asked to take on the scoring load and be the man. He can do it but nowhere near as efficiently as he does it now. In his last season with Partizan in the final series against Red Star he was averaging in the high 20s but his percentages went down, turnovers went up, assists went down. Expecting him to maintain the same efficiency on a higher number of shots is just not realistic. The fatigue will set in especially over the course of the season.
 
No offense, but how preytell do you know that? I doubt that anyone predicted that Booker would be as prolific a scorer as he's turned out to be. Right now, Bog's is a more efficient scorer than Booker, the difference is the amount of shots they take. Per 36 Bog's is averaging 10 pts less than Booker, but he's also taking 8 fewer shots. Give his those shots at the same efficiency and his point total will be very close to Booker's. I realize that's a simplistic approach, but it's very possible as well. Whether Bog's becomes as prolific a scorer as Booker depends more on how he plays the game than on ability. Give Bogdanovic 20 shots a game, and I'll guarantee you that he'll average more than 20 pts a game. He's too efficient not to.

The problem with that scenario is that Bog's is too much of a team player, unlike Booker who looks to score more. But lets be honest here, just because Booker scores more, that doesn't make him the better player. Lets give Bog's three years in the league like Booker has and then pass judgement.
Age is extremely important when you talk about Booker. He's a 25ppg scorer as a 21yearold. Bogdan is already 25yearsold.
 
100% chance he hits 19? He's never averaged 19 ppg once in his career, not even at a per 36 minute pace. Wouldn't surprise me if he did since his game is so polished already, but don't think I'd go into a bet thinking it's a guarantee.
All it takes is a coach telling the guy to shoot more. Who saw Hedo or Peja as 20ppg scorers when they were 19? If the shots centered around Bogs he could average 20ppg, but we would need a halfway decent PG and a halfway decent big (Not just talking about Randolph since he's on his way out of the league).
 

hrdboild

Hall of Famer
Brian Windhorst says the Kings are talking with other teams send trade away some young guys. Kings want to clear roster spots for the Cavaliers trade(we have a full roster right now).
http://www.espn.com/espnradio/play?id=22181817 at 6:20

If I had to guess, the names probably include Richardson, Mason, and PapaG.
Wait... now we're trading young players just so we can take back... Frye or Shumpert? What is going on here? Who on the Cavs is actually worth dumping a former first round pick for?
 
Wait... now we're trading young players just so we can take back... Frye or Shumpert? What is going on here? Who on the Cavs is actually worth dumping a former first round pick for?
I wouldn't necessarily jump to that conclusion. The deal could be to consolidate some of our young talent into a better young asset while also opening up another roster spot to do a 2 for 1 with a pick headed our way as compensation.
 
Wait... now we're trading young players just so we can take back... Frye or Shumpert? What is going on here? Who on the Cavs is actually worth dumping a former first round pick for?
Cap space next offseason is my guess. Hills contract wasnt good when he signed it and him having the worst season of his career makes it even worse. Malachi and PapaG also dont have value around the league. They were bad picks to begin with and have looked bad since then.
When you trade Hill+Richardson for Frye + Shumpert you gain 10 mil in cap space at least (with a small chance at 20 mil if Shumpert does opt out). There are not a lot of teams with cap space next year and Kings want to be good the next season. It makes sense.

Based on the report, my guess is the Kings are currently trying to find a taker for Malachi to create a roster spot because the Cavs dont want him as he would cost them a lot of money.
 

kingsboi

Hall of Famer
Are you kidding me? He’s averaging 15.3 over the past 10 games on 30 min per game and 10.4 shots a game.

Most NBA starters play 34-36 minutes and starting high caliber shooting guards take more than 10 shots a game. Oladipo puts up 18 shots a game and Klay puts up 16. Even if he doesn’t improve from here at all he adds 4-6 more points a game just on minutes and more shots alone.

Of players with more than 2 3 pt. attempts a game he is 25th in percentage and 75th in attempts. Those numbers will change for sure. He should be taking 6-7 attempts a game.
Bogs doesn't get to the FT line and he doesn't shoot the ball good enough consistently to average 25 PPG...we are talking about a top 10 scorer in the league. Do you really think he can reach that? I think that's delusional thinking but who am I to tell you otherwise if you are convinced.
 

kingsboi

Hall of Famer
No offense, but how preytell do you know that? I doubt that anyone predicted that Booker would be as prolific a scorer as he's turned out to be. Right now, Bog's is a more efficient scorer than Booker, the difference is the amount of shots they take. Per 36 Bog's is averaging 10 pts less than Booker, but he's also taking 8 fewer shots. Give his those shots at the same efficiency and his point total will be very close to Booker's. I realize that's a simplistic approach, but it's very possible as well. Whether Bog's becomes as prolific a scorer as Booker depends more on how he plays the game than on ability. Give Bogdanovic 20 shots a game, and I'll guarantee you that he'll average more than 20 pts a game. He's too efficient not to.

The problem with that scenario is that Bog's is too much of a team player, unlike Booker who looks to score more. But lets be honest here, just because Booker scores more, that doesn't make him the better player. Lets give Bog's three years in the league like Booker has and then pass judgement.
Being a 25 PPG scorer is a mentality. It's not something that you just go out and do with more shots. For starters, Bogs doesn't get to the free throw line very much. Two, when defenses stiffen up on him, can he make tough shots consistently? That remains to be seen and even if he gets more shot, he may get 17-20 PPG but 25 PPG isn't realistic because that would equate to him being a top ten scorer in the league. You want to bring up Booker but Booker is a chucker and his numbers aren't impressive to be honest. I don't want my player to go out there and chuck up 20+ shots just for the sake of it if he doesn't have the skillset to make the tough shots with defenses keying in on your weakness.
 
I don’t see Bogdan taking 20 poopoos he’s to unselfish to do that. Anyways hopefully Bogdan is a 3rd option for us that’s when we’ll be good
I don’t think Bogdan will be the third option. But who knows. The third option is typically a catch and shoot guy and Bogdan is too good with the ball in his hands.
 
Being a 25 PPG scorer is a mentality. It's not something that you just go out and do with more shots. For starters, Bogs doesn't get to the free throw line very much. Two, when defenses stiffen up on him, can he make tough shots consistently? That remains to be seen and even if he gets more shot, he may get 17-20 PPG but 25 PPG isn't realistic because that would equate to him being a top ten scorer in the league. You want to bring up Booker but Booker is a chucker and his numbers aren't impressive to be honest. I don't want my player to go out there and chuck up 20+ shots just for the sake of it if he doesn't have the skillset to make the tough shots with defenses keying in on your weakness.
I think 25 is tough and would require Bogs being better creating his own shots. But I have seen hints of a pretty smooth step back three. If he dials that shot in he becomes pretty hard to stop.
 
I don’t think Bogdan will be the third option. But who knows. The third option is typically a catch and shoot guy and Bogdan is too good with the ball in his hands.
3rd option is better than a catch and shoot guy if you’re a playoff team at least. A 3rd option at 15-4 a game is pretty good option with Fox developing into a 2nd option, and 2018 pick 1st option
 
Bogs doesn't get to the FT line and he doesn't shoot the ball good enough consistently to average 25 PPG...we are talking about a top 10 scorer in the league. Do you really think he can reach that? I think that's delusional thinking but who am I to tell you otherwise if you are convinced.
I’m not at all convinced he can reach 25 ppg. He will have to further develop his game but I see hints of it. I am convinced he can score 19-21. He can get there if Fox, Skal or Willie ever figure out how to kick the ball out to open shooters. Luckily Harry is a good passer and Skal or Willie will get limited minutes.
 
3rd option is better than a catch and shoot guy if you’re a playoff team at least. A 3rd option at 15-4 a game is pretty good option with Fox developing into a 2nd option, and 2018 pick 1st option
I think Bogs is a second option over Fox unless he becomes a lot better shooter. I would hope Fox learns to collapse the defense and kick out to open shooters. If Fox keeps forcing things on dribble penetration we aren’t going to be very good.
 
He is getting those numbers on a BAD team where he has a green light to do what he likes. Hell the coach wants him to shoot more.

Ask yourself this, if on the Kings he had say Anthony Davis and say Dame Lillard, would he be getting more shots per game than he is getting now? I HIGHLY doubt he would.

Bogdan is a great TEAM player. Someone who takes what the defense gives him and he is not someone who is going to look to take 20 shots in a game. He would be a great complement next to a couple of stars because he will play off them and keep the defenses on their toes. He is a highly valuable type of player on a great team but he is not a 25ppg scorer on a good team. Sure he can do it on a bad team but I have seen him in the past when he has been asked to take on the scoring load and be the man. He can do it but nowhere near as efficiently as he does it now. In his last season with Partizan in the final series against Red Star he was averaging in the high 20s but his percentages went down, turnovers went up, assists went down. Expecting him to maintain the same efficiency on a higher number of shots is just not realistic. The fatigue will set in especially over the course of the season.
I am more of the Popovich theory that his numbers will go up when paired with other high IQ players. Currently Bogs gets very few easy shots created by other players. Willie and Skal get the ball and 9 times out of 10 do one thing: shoot the ball no matter how many defenders collapse on them. Willie and Skal combined average 3 assists a game.

Giles is a high IQ player and a good passer. I expect he beats them both by himself and a portion of those assists go to Bogs. The Kings are 2nd in field goal percentage and 28th in attempts. That’s pretty definitive data someone on the team has their head up their a$$.
 

hrdboild

Hall of Famer
Cap space next offseason is my guess. Hills contract wasnt good when he signed it and him having the worst season of his career makes it even worse. Malachi and PapaG also dont have value around the league. They were bad picks to begin with and have looked bad since then.
When you trade Hill+Richardson for Frye + Shumpert you gain 10 mil in cap space at least (with a small chance at 20 mil if Shumpert does opt out). There are not a lot of teams with cap space next year and Kings want to be good the next season. It makes sense.

Based on the report, my guess is the Kings are currently trying to find a taker for Malachi to create a roster spot because the Cavs dont want him as he would cost them a lot of money.
That makes sense but it also makes me nervous. The good thing about all of our veterans right now is that none of them has a contract that lasts beyond next year (except Hill but it's a $1 million buyout which is effectively nothing). So when we need to start thinking about extensions for all of our rookies in 2019, there's currently no salary tied up other than the $8.5 million owed to Bogie. If we we end up with cap space this summer we're probably going to spend it and I don't like where that leads us. Actually, I'm more terrified of cap space at this point than pretty much anything else. When have we ever known this team to make good use of cap space? Greg Ostertag, Shareef Abdur-Rahim with bad knees, Mikki Moore, John Salmons, Travis Outlaw, Chuck Hayes, Marcus Thornton, Carl Landry, Marco Belinelli, Arron Afflalo, Matt Barnes. This year alone we're spending $40 million on George Hill, Zach Randolph, and Vince Carter. We already have 4 players on the payroll this year who are not on the roster because Vlade had to buy out the contracts he gave them less than a year later. And we don't have our pick next year because it was traded to get rid of Thompson and Landry.

I actually think we're in a safe place right now with the contracts we currently have -- a lot of teams make it through the "stockpiling rookies" phase of the rebuild relatively worry free. It's when you start tacking on salary to "accelerate the rebuild" that you run into problems. The types of free agents who sign with Sacramento are almost always mediocre talents who are already in decline and that makes them overpaid and unmovable. If we're making trades I'd much rather we just kept going after young players that fit with what we already have. We can bring in actual talent with trades, we almost never do with cap space.

I've also got a small nitpick with the George Hill comment. It was definitely an overpay but the year 3 buyout and declining salary make it palatable. It's also not quite accurate to call this the worst season of his career when he's having his best season (by far) behind the arc at exactly the same time that every playoff team in the league is desperate for more three point shooting to compete with GS. If that small fact weren't true we wouldn't even be talking about a potential George Hill trade because it would be a complete non-starter.
 
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I was reading that the sixers need some guard help and Saric''s role on the team isn't being maximized. I know it may be a long shot but i would love to have him on this team. He's a guy that I want on this team.
I was laughed off earlier when a brought up a Hill trade for him

By Philadelphia fans
 
I was reading that the sixers need some guard help and Saric''s role on the team isn't being maximized. I know it may be a long shot but i would love to have him on this team. He's a guy that I want on this team.
I would like him on the team too I just don't think the 76ers would have any interest in the Kings players. IMO I think Saric is a better young player then anyone we have. I don't think Philly would want multiple young players in return I would think they would want someone to help them today
 
I would like him on the team too I just don't think the 76ers would have any interest in the Kings players. IMO I think Saric is a better young player then anyone we have. I don't think Philly would want multiple young players in return I would think they would want someone to help them today
That's perhaps where George Hill might appeal to them since he's a veteran and can play both guard positions. Main problem with that deal is his contract might hurt their cap situation if they want to make a run at LeBron or someone else in free agency, though I suppose they've got Reddick coming off the books and some other one year deals.

Would they have interest in Temple or Koufos?

Right now I'd say it's doubtful we've got enough to tempt them without sacrificing a draft pick. Unless of course they'd want a young guard like Buddy in a deal with a veteran like Hill. But personally I'd take a pass on Saric.
 
I think we should look to move Hield and keep Bogs...problem with hield as a 6th man is he is a dreadful creator. If he is our 6th man it only works if someone like mason is drawing the defense and kicking to him. The way he shoots on the move, and the stiffness, to me just looks like he will never be an efficient shot creator. I have more faith Malachi can fill that roll long term than buddy. Id sell buddy and Hill to cavs for that BKN pick.
 
I would like him on the team too I just don't think the 76ers would have any interest in the Kings players. IMO I think Saric is a better young player then anyone we have. I don't think Philly would want multiple young players in return I would think they would want someone to help them today
I disagree with this. I think WCS and Bogdan are better than him. However, I could see Philly trying to go after Buddy or Bogdan. Their 2nd leading scorer is 33 yearold JJ Redick who also happens to be their starting SG. I think Buddy could be a potential answer to their long-term SG and the timeline isn't very far off. Only real problem with Buddy as their starting SG is that a Fultz-Buddy would probably be a defensive liability.