[Game] Kings @ Hornets - Monday, Jan. 22 - 4 PT
- Thread starter VF21
- Start date
Quick question - without checking the box score, who had the best +/- and who had the worst?
I was not at all surprised by the answers.
The kids looked good. Jackson continues to struggle which is a bit concerning for one of the older rookies but he has all the earmarks of being a solid role player.
Papa looked improved. Willie really struggled but one bad game doesn't erase all the gains he's made over the last few months. Skal didn't really hit the boards but he had a great game offensively. Fox is coming into his own. Bogie plays like a vet and Hield looks like an ideal sixth man.
A year of growth, a healthy Mason, Giles hopefully being an impact player and a top draft pick in the upcoming draft and the Kings could start to be building something.
I was not at all surprised by the answers.
The kids looked good. Jackson continues to struggle which is a bit concerning for one of the older rookies but he has all the earmarks of being a solid role player.
Papa looked improved. Willie really struggled but one bad game doesn't erase all the gains he's made over the last few months. Skal didn't really hit the boards but he had a great game offensively. Fox is coming into his own. Bogie plays like a vet and Hield looks like an ideal sixth man.
A year of growth, a healthy Mason, Giles hopefully being an impact player and a top draft pick in the upcoming draft and the Kings could start to be building something.
The clips of Giles at Duke do not really have me holding my breath on him. The Kings need to TANK it hard as they've successfully been doing and grab #1, #2, or #3, while trading Hill for a small shot in the dark player in late first round. Hopefully the Cavs sputter a bit and the secondary pick could be be in the high teens. Next year go all young again in the hopes of some traction with top 4 players in Bogdan, Cauley-Stein, Fox, and Hield and the high pick bolsters things. The Vet stance should be shelved. If they want to drop some money in free agency go for a value vet like Ariza, or maybe go all in with Paul George, or after James or Durant, none of which will likely sign with them as a project team.
That's the silver lining here... as bad as things might get this season, if Harry Giles ends up being something we'll be bringing in two very promising rookies next season to build onto what we already have. And what we already have -- the trio of Fox, Bogie, and Buddy in the backcourt and the Willie and Skal duo in the frontcourt -- (assuming none of them gets traded) looks like a pretty good group to start with. There are no bad choices at the top of the draft this year. Whether it's Ayton, Doncic, Porter, Bagley, Young, Bamba, Jackson, Bridges -- adding one of these guys and a fully recuperated Harry Giles to that core group of players who all have shown flashes of greatness this year has got me pretty excited about where we could go in the future.
It's just a small thing, but I still think +/- as a stat is a little silly. DeMarcus had a monster game tonight: 44 points, 24 rebounds, 10 assists, 4 steals and didn't even lead his team in +/-. It ends up being one of those things that's easy to ignore unless it reinforces what you already believe. I guess over the course of a season the trends would tell you something but you'd still need some kind of normalizing adjustment to account for overall team performance.
It's just a small thing, but I still think +/- as a stat is a little silly. DeMarcus had a monster game tonight: 44 points, 24 rebounds, 10 assists, 4 steals and didn't even lead his team in +/-. It ends up being one of those things that's easy to ignore unless it reinforces what you already believe. I guess over the course of a season the trends would tell you something but you'd still need some kind of normalizing adjustment to account for overall team performance.
They do but we are blatantly tanking. I’m okay with it. Next year we don’t have our pick and expect an 8 man rotation because we might have 8 quality players. Assuming we get the first pick:
Starters: Willie, Giles, pick, Bogdan, Fox
Off Bench: Buddy, ???
Skal maybe, Mason maybe, Hill or ZBo until they are traded, Temple/Koufos if they are here...
DNP: Pappa, Richardson, Jackson
Starters: Willie, Giles, pick, Bogdan, Fox
Off Bench: Buddy, ???
Skal maybe, Mason maybe, Hill or ZBo until they are traded, Temple/Koufos if they are here...
DNP: Pappa, Richardson, Jackson
You know, I don't remember. I'm looking on YouTube now. All I know is I thought Bogs was dead.
EDIT: If you're on Twitter, @NBCSKings has a video clip.
https://twitter.com/twitter/statuses/955630718993879042
EDIT: If you're on Twitter, @NBCSKings has a video clip.
https://twitter.com/twitter/statuses/955630718993879042
Last edited:
Do the new draft rules take effect though? If so then tanking that low won't mean as much. Also, I wouldn't expect those guys to win many more games, but the learning experience would be irreplaceable. They also still have to kick the tires on these young players to see if they work, how they work, and what they need moving on next to them. There is no reason to not start separating the prime young talent from the rest. Clearly that prime talent are players that brought the team back tonight. And I'm also firmly convinced that Bogdan is more effective defensively at SF.
Obviously too many unknowns right now. However, if we pick a 4/5 and Giles is anywhere as good as advertised, we must seriously think of trading Willie.
I like Willie, and think he will be a good player in the league for years to come. However, given that we will have two potential cornerstones in Giles and pick, with Skal and Papa to back them up (with Z Bo and KK still possibly around), Willie will not have the same value for us. Among all the players we can and might be willing to trade, I think he will have the highest value. We still have a big hole at 3, which we will need to address, and a trade with Willie as the chief sweetener might help there.
Of course, if we draft a 3, this discussion becomes irrelevant. In the former scenario though, we should try and make a serious run at Paul George. While he might prefer staying in OKC, or potentially move to Lakers, if we can sell him on a future of playing with Fox, Giles, a high pick, Bogdan, Buddy, Skal, he might be tempted. We do have pieces that can grow and compete for a long time. We need to stop screwing up, and give hopes to potential tier 1 free agents that we can field a winning team. A little success will hopefully beget more success.
I like Willie, and think he will be a good player in the league for years to come. However, given that we will have two potential cornerstones in Giles and pick, with Skal and Papa to back them up (with Z Bo and KK still possibly around), Willie will not have the same value for us. Among all the players we can and might be willing to trade, I think he will have the highest value. We still have a big hole at 3, which we will need to address, and a trade with Willie as the chief sweetener might help there.
Of course, if we draft a 3, this discussion becomes irrelevant. In the former scenario though, we should try and make a serious run at Paul George. While he might prefer staying in OKC, or potentially move to Lakers, if we can sell him on a future of playing with Fox, Giles, a high pick, Bogdan, Buddy, Skal, he might be tempted. We do have pieces that can grow and compete for a long time. We need to stop screwing up, and give hopes to potential tier 1 free agents that we can field a winning team. A little success will hopefully beget more success.
I don't really care for +/- for a single game or any kind of small sample size. Also, if the player is not getting meaningful minutes, I don't put that much faith in it. A lot of +/- stat depends on who you're playing with and against. Over a period of time, like a season, it probably has some value for regular rotation guys.
I’m not sure why the last two games Willies has been rushing his shots so much, even open jumpers. He needs to slow down his game just a little bit and show more patience like he has earlier in some of his better games. His shot selection last night was also poor at times, although a couple of times the guards put him in a bad position regarding the shot clock. Hopefully, we will see a more patient WCS tonight.
He did have 4 shots blocked at the rim last night, but I am ok with him taking those shots, he just needs to figure out how take it stronger or to draw the foul. The only way to learn is to go through it. I particularly liked where Howard blocked his shot and knocked him down, but Willie got back up, got the offensive rebound and dunked it.
Even though his offense has taken a downturn in the last two games, he has rebounded in double figures the last three games and four out of five averaging an even 10.0 during those 5 games.
He did have 4 shots blocked at the rim last night, but I am ok with him taking those shots, he just needs to figure out how take it stronger or to draw the foul. The only way to learn is to go through it. I particularly liked where Howard blocked his shot and knocked him down, but Willie got back up, got the offensive rebound and dunked it.
Even though his offense has taken a downturn in the last two games, he has rebounded in double figures the last three games and four out of five averaging an even 10.0 during those 5 games.
You could also pass the SAT with it. 0.4*3 = 0.6*2, no real way around that one.
The only caveat I see is that raw shooting percentages (basically, this is the stat known as eFG%) don't take into account opportunities to get to the free throw line, which are more likely to be granted on a two-point attempt than a three-point attempt. But seeing as we're 29th in the league in FTA per possession (30th in the league in total FTA), it doesn't appear that our very high percentage of two-point shots attempted (73%, third highest in the league) is really helping us there. Nor is our 28th-in-the-league FT%. Nor is our 30th-in-the-league 2P%. In fact, one of the few things our team has going for it is that we are #2 in the league in 3P% - the one type of shot that is most valuable and that we are one of the least likely teams in the league to actually shoot.
Our reluctance to shoot threes is either brilliant sabermetric-based tanking, or it is basketball incompetence at the highest levels. And seeing that it took me like 35 seconds on BB-ref to get these numbers, I sincerely hope it's the former.
The only caveat I see is that raw shooting percentages (basically, this is the stat known as eFG%) don't take into account opportunities to get to the free throw line, which are more likely to be granted on a two-point attempt than a three-point attempt. But seeing as we're 29th in the league in FTA per possession (30th in the league in total FTA), it doesn't appear that our very high percentage of two-point shots attempted (73%, third highest in the league) is really helping us there. Nor is our 28th-in-the-league FT%. Nor is our 30th-in-the-league 2P%. In fact, one of the few things our team has going for it is that we are #2 in the league in 3P% - the one type of shot that is most valuable and that we are one of the least likely teams in the league to actually shoot.
Our reluctance to shoot threes is either brilliant sabermetric-based tanking, or it is basketball incompetence at the highest levels. And seeing that it took me like 35 seconds on BB-ref to get these numbers, I sincerely hope it's the former.