George Hill to the Cavaliers?

Well, I went ahead and did that since I have no life, but here are the results from 1998 to now.

Jason Williams
Richard Hamilton
Chris Mihm
Eddie Griffin
Nene
Kirk Hinrich
Luol Deng
Charlie Villanueva
Randy Foye
Corey Brewer
Eric Gordon
Stephen Curry
Greg Monroe
Bismack Biyombo
Harrison Barnes
Ben McLemore
Julius Randle
Emmanuel Mudiay
Jamal Murray
Lauri Markkanen

Of course, #7 is just an arbitrary number we picked. Curry is the only franchise centerpiece at this point, but at least half of these guys are better. You've got one MVP, a few couple-time all stars, a couple promising players for the recent ones, some starters, and a handful of busts.
So I’d rather have Bogi than throw a dart at that board. I respect people who want to disagree
 
No, the problem of the Kings for the last 10 years is solely due to the horrific ownership and even more horrible front office. It is not this idea of "the grass is greener on the other side". It's the dumbass front office that can't hit their draft picks. Who has drafted as many busts as the Kings in recent history? Jimmer Fredette, Thomas Robinson, Ben McLemore, and Nik Stauskas. Kings should be patient with their draft picks? Truth be told, these guys showed day 1 that they did not belong in the NBA...just like a lot of the players we have on our team. But ok, let's continue to be "patient".I'm tired of hearing this because I don't care. I don't care that they have less than 3 years experience. Donovan Mitchell has 44 games experience in the NBA. Lauri Markkanen has 44 games experience in the NBA. Yes, I will acknowledge that players develop at difference paces, but it's not hard to look at someone like Papagiannis and know that he's not an NBA players right now. It's not hard to look at Skal and know that he has one of the lowest IQs in the league. It's not hard to look at Malachi and know that he needs to find a niche or get things going or else he could be out of this league by year 5. The 2011 Bobcats had 15 players on the roster, but it doesn't mean they were all NBA players.


I agree with this very much! However, the Kings are at a crossroads where we don't have a franchise player. Regarding Bogdan, it would be an entirely different story if we had Cousins on this roster still. But we don't. The Kings desperately need to find one. You don't win in this league without one. Now, if you knew you had slim chance, but a chance, to get a franchise player if you traded Bogdan, would you do it? Most would say no because they have an emotional attachment to Bogdan. Let's use another player. If you're Orlando(another rebuilding team)and if you could trade Fournier for a top 10 pick, would you? Most Kings fans would probably say yes. Fun fact, Fournier is younger than Bogdanovic. Fun fact, he's had 356 NBA games compared to Bogdan's 42 NBA games. What makes Bogdan different? Emotional attachment.


Here's the bottom line for me. It's much easier in the NBA to find players that fit around your franchise player than it is to find a franchise player. It's much easier to find the Klay Thompsons in the world than it is the Steph Currys. Would you seriously use the Kings from the last 10 years as the regular NBA standard? No. Now, you might ask me..well if you know that the last time the Kings had a franchise player, we couldn't do anything with him, what makes me think it'll happen differently this time? nothing really. Just hoping that the Kings can finally get their poopoo together when it does happen again.

I love Bogdan. He's become my favorite King after I was so damn skeptical of him. He's proved that he can play just as good at the highest league of basketball. I wouldn't give him away for free. In fact, no one has said we should give up Bogdan in hopes to find another Bogdan...that's just dumb. Most who have talked about recent trades surrounding Bogdan are hoping to find a franchise player.
some people think that pushing a lot of chips into the middle on the hope that next year’s #5-9 is a Franchise Player is too much of a longshot.
 
Curry is the only franchise centerpiece at this point, but at least half of these guys are better. You've got one MVP, a few couple-time all stars, a couple promising players for the recent ones, some starters, and a handful of busts.
You seem like a nice enough fan, but I find much of what you post as hyperbole and conjecture. Not a lot of thought put into it.

Bogie is in his first season in the NBA -- on a rebuilding team no less -- and averaging less than 27 minutes per game. Yet you're making comparisons and judgements against players that have played much longer.

How many of those players showed more than Bogie 1/2 way through their rookie season? Not many. As @John Galt said, trading him for #7 would be akin to throwing a dart at a board. That doesn't make a lot of sense when you've got a bird in hand. I guess it means nothing to you that people outside the Kings organization -- most notably Greg Popovich -- think highly of Bogdanovic. I mean, what does Pop possibly know, right?

I don't know what your issue is with Bogie, but you are clearly selling him short. He's arguably the best player on the team currently. You don't trade a player as talented and well-rounded as he's proven to be thus far for an unknown unless it's a no brainer (like a package to get a can't miss player). #7 isn't a can't miss position.
 
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You seem like a nice enough fan, but I find much of what you post as hyperbole and conjecture. Not a lot of though put into it.

Bogie is in his first season in the NBA -- on a rebuilding team no less -- and averaging less than 27 minutes per game. Yet you're making comparisons and judgements against players that have played much longer.

How many of those players showed more than Bogie 1/2 way through their rookie season? Not many. As @John Galt said, trading him for #7 would be akin to throwing a dart at a board. That doesn't make a lot of sense when you've got a bird in hand. I guess it means nothing to you that people outside the Kings organization -- most notably Greg Popovich -- think highly of Bogdanovic. I mean, what does Pop possibly know, right?

I don't know what your issue is with Bogie, but you are clearly selling him short. He's arguably the best player on the team currently. You don't trade a player as talented and well-rounded as he's proven to be thus far for an unknown unless it's a no brainer (like a package to get a can't miss player). #7 isn't a can't miss position.
Not arguably, he is.....trading your best player is....., well the Kings have done that before. Guess I wouldn't be surprised.

I wouldn't mind the Kings trading Hill for Cavs #1 draft pick and expiring contracts.
 
The Cavs are in a unique situation that can be exploited, namely they have the threat of LeBron leaving looming over their franchise if they do NOT return to the Finals.

This is the kind of opportunity you want to take advantage of as an opposing GM. Vlade is likely oblivious to this. He rarely recognizes opportunity he squanders it (see Boogie Trade).

George Hill is a negative asset due 30M between now and end of next year. He's a negative asset to us and probably every other team in the NBA except the Cavs!

This when it would be nice to be a shrewd negotiator. But our GM does not like to talk on the phone. Perhaps an IT specialist can install Skype into Vlade's laptop so a deal can be considered and consummated.

Barring that we will have to hope Vlade runs into the Cavs GM at the concession stand during the All Star game. Between his order of soda nachos and sausage dogs, the direction of the franchise can be altered.

The futility of George Hill for the next 18 months cannot be understated.
I think there is a small chance Hill is on the Kings after the trade deadline next year. Between George and ZBo we will have 30.6M minimum in expiring contracts. If both Koufos and Temple out in its another 16M.

My guess is we will use those to acquire more assets for eating some salary. If things go really well in the first half we can keep Hill and sign a free agent instead.
 
You seem like a nice enough fan, but I find much of what you post as hyperbole and conjecture. Not a lot of thought put into it.

Bogie is in his first season in the NBA -- on a rebuilding team no less -- and averaging less than 27 minutes per game. Yet you're making comparisons and judgements against players that have played much longer.

How many of those players showed more than Bogie 1/2 way through their rookie season? Not many. As @John Galt said, trading him for #7 would be akin to throwing a dart at a board. That doesn't make a lot of sense when you've got a bird in hand. I guess it means nothing to you that people outside the Kings organization -- most notably Greg Popovich -- think highly of Bogdanovic. I mean, what does Pop possibly know, right?

I don't know what your issue is with Bogie, but you are clearly selling him short. He's arguably the best player on the team currently. You don't trade a player as talented and well-rounded as he's proven to be thus far for an unknown unless it's a no brainer (like a package to get a can't miss player). #7 isn't a can't miss position.
The problem I have with him is nothing he does, but what he is. None of those guys were 25 year old rookies; the recent picks in that list are all younger now and with the exception of Mudiay are arguably better. Do you know why people make a big brouhaha about his age even though he's a rookie? Because it means he's in his physical prime and at or near his ceiling. The main thing I can think of where he can still develop and get better is adjusting to the nuances of the NBA, but physically he should be completely developed and his skills should be mostly developed already. For what's it worth, by his third or fourth season I see him as a 17/4/5 guy (if he's playing starter's minutes) who shoots well and has a high BBIQ. A starter or third/fourth best player on a lower seeded playoff team and the best player on a historically bad team like ours; I'm having a hard time envisioning all star status because I'm not sure how much more improvement they can squeeze out of him. A player like that I don't mind giving up for another dart to throw at the board; obviously I don't value him the same way you guys do. I made the comparison to Malcolm Brogdon; that's who I see him as.

Popovich praising him doesn't make me think he's some transcendent talent or untouchable. Not too long ago these BKN picks were often considered the most valuable assets in the league. Demarcus Cousins couldn't fetch it from Ainge, and even now with lesser value it's apparently a deal breaker for the Cavs in their pursuit of Deandre Jordan or whatever other star they're trying to get (though if they get desperate they might cave since they have nothing else of value to trade). There's a lot of things I'd do to get another Top 10 pick in this upcoming draft.
 
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Here it is--> http://www.basketballinsiders.com/h...-pick/history-of-the-nba-draft-pick-number-7/

I scanned it and saw J Will and Benny Mac:cool:

Don't trade Bogie!
FiveThirtyEight.com projects Brooklyn to finish with the 5th worst record in the league. You could potentially have one of Doncic/Ayton/Bagley/Porter/Young/Jackson for the price of Bogdanovic. And if they do finish with the 5th worst record (or 6th for that matter), the pick has about a 25% chance at falling into the top 3. Now you have some choice of the players I previously listed.

Now the projection could end up being wrong and they could end up with the 7th worst record or even the 9th, but I don't understand the fascination with wanting to hold on to Bogdanovic for the return we have been discussing. You could end up having a Fox-Hield-Doncic-Porter-Giles/Cauley-Stein lineup going into next year with five of your star potential players (Fox, Doncic, Porter, Giles, Labissiere) all being on the same timeline. That's nothing to scoff at.
 
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When did Cleveland show interest in Bogdan? Or are we still speaking philosophy?
No reported interests. It's just that Capt suggested Hill for Cleveland's 1st rounder was not fair at all for the Kings. They would need to include the BKN pick. I said no, there's no damn way Cleveland gives it up for Hill. If anything, we'd need to include Bogdan or WCS. He later clarified saying he wouldn't take the Cleveland 1st rounder, and the next valuable asset the Cavs have is the Nets pick. He wasn't saying that they wouldn't necessarily give it up.

It's turned into some odd discussions.
 
With the situation with Lebron, Gilbert as owner and revolving GM's, I don't personally think CLE's current valuation of picks should be considered a standard to go by.

I also agree with Capt in this instance. We are in no rush to trade Hill, a team one year removed from a title has already showed interest, though their coffers look barren to me for the most part.

If a deal can be reached for Hill, who leads the league in 3pt%, can play either the 1 or 2, and is a decent defender, then that's great. If not then you limit his minutes until something presents itself. Just my opinion.

I am all about gathering assets, but it isn't very black and white to me. Case by case.
 
The problem I have with him is nothing he does, but what he is. None of those guys were 25 year old rookies; the recent picks in that list are all younger now and with the exception of Mudiay are arguably better. Do you know why people make a big brouhaha about his age even though he's a rookie? Because it means he's in his physical prime and at or near his ceiling. The main thing I can think of where he can still develop and get better is adjusting to the nuances of the NBA, but physically he should be completely developed and his skills should be mostly developed already. For what's it worth, by his third or fourth season I see him as a 17/4/5 guy (if he's playing starter's minutes) who shoots well and has a high BBIQ. A starter or third/fourth best player on a lower seeded playoff team and the best player on a historically bad team like ours; I'm having a hard time envisioning all star status because I'm not sure how much more improvement they can squeeze out of him. A player like that I don't mind giving up for another dart to throw at the board; obviously I don't value him the same way you guys do. I made the comparison to Malcolm Brogdon; that's who I see him as.

Popovich praising him doesn't make me think he's some transcendent talent or untouchable. Not too long ago these BKN picks were often considered the most valuable assets in the league. Demarcus Cousins couldn't fetch it from Ainge, and even now with lesser value it's apparently a deal breaker for the Cavs in their pursuit of Deandre Jordan or whatever other star they're trying to get (though if they get desperate they might cave since they have nothing else of value to trade). There's a lot of things I'd do to get another Top 10 pick in this upcoming draft.
Bogdan is about 70% developed imo. Far more than most rookies, but we haven't seen anything near his full potential yet. I'm pretty sure he will be an All Star.
When your teammates are bad, it makes you bad unless you're an iso guy. Bogdan not only looks good, but makes everyone else good. We have a highly skilled leader and the goldilocks scenario for a rebuilding team. I think you will join the Bogdan wagon in time :)
 
The problem I have with him is nothing he does, but what he is. None of those guys were 25 year old rookies; the recent picks in that list are all younger now and with the exception of Mudiay are arguably better. Do you know why people make a big brouhaha about his age even though he's a rookie? Because it means he's in his physical prime and at or near his ceiling. The main thing I can think of where he can still develop and get better is adjusting to the nuances of the NBA, but physically he should be completely developed and his skills should be mostly developed already. For what's it worth, by his third or fourth season I see him as a 17/4/5 guy (if he's playing starter's minutes) who shoots well and has a high BBIQ. A starter or third/fourth best player on a lower seeded playoff team and the best player on a historically bad team like ours; I'm having a hard time envisioning all star status because I'm not sure how much more improvement they can squeeze out of him. A player like that I don't mind giving up for another dart to throw at the board; obviously I don't value him the same way you guys do. I made the comparison to Malcolm Brogdon; that's who I see him as.

Popovich praising him doesn't make me think he's some transcendent talent or untouchable. Not too long ago these BKN picks were often considered the most valuable assets in the league. Demarcus Cousins couldn't fetch it from Ainge, and even now with lesser value it's apparently a deal breaker for the Cavs in their pursuit of Deandre Jordan or whatever other star they're trying to get (though if they get desperate they might cave since they have nothing else of value to trade). There's a lot of things I'd do to get another Top 10 pick in this upcoming draft.
So you agree he is a starter on a god team. That’s good enough for me. Who else among our young can we say that about. Idon’t Share your love for darts. Give me a player who is made of flesh and blood and has a name. It’s fine that Popovich likes him but it is more mportant that I like him.
 
Bogdan is about 70% developed imo. Far more than most rookies, but we haven't seen anything near his full potential yet. I'm pretty sure he will be an All Star.
When your teammates are bad, it makes you bad unless you're an iso guy. Bogdan not only looks good, but makes everyone else good. We have a highly skilled leader and the goldilocks scenario for a rebuilding team. I think you will join the Bogdan wagon in time :)
Even if he’s fully developed a 15-4 guy with decent defense is a very good player none of those fools outside the top 5 will produce that. Bridges really **** outta here
 
Even if he’s fully developed a 15-4 guy with decent defense is a very good player none of those fools outside the top 5 will produce that. Bridges really **** outta here
I know you're not in favor of the trade, but you really think that there will not at least be one player outside the top 5 that can average more than 15-4? Not one? Hell, Smith Jr. & Mitchell are basically already doing it from last year's draft.

You can be against the trade, but let's not try to curve the narrative to fit your point.
 
Another data point to consider when evaluating this philosophical Hill+Bogdan for Nets pick trade is that Nets do not really have the incentive to tank. The other bottom teams most certainly will do so, so the Nets pick might not end up as high as it should.
 

dude12

Hall of Famer
Another data point to consider when evaluating this philosophical Hill+Bogdan for Nets pick trade is that Nets do not really have the incentive to tank. The other bottom teams most certainly will do so, so the Nets pick might not end up as high as it should.
I don't think anyone is saying Hill plus Bogi for that pick.........more the chatter is Bogi for the pick.
 

dude12

Hall of Famer
I'd rather us hold Hill til the offseason than dump him for peanuts. There are 2 points where his trade value is the highest.....trade deadline and in the off season when he becomes an expiring. Cavs absolutely can use this guy. In the off season we may have more options as all teams retool their roster.
 
I don't think anyone is saying Hill plus Bogi for that pick.........more the chatter is Bogi for the pick.
I might be mixing my threads up. I know in some thread it was suggested that the only way to get the Nets pick in the Hill trade (with other players involved) was to add something valuable like Bogdan...
 
FiveThirtyEight.com projects Brooklyn to finish with the 5th worst record in the league. You could potentially have one of Doncic/Ayton/Bagley/Porter/Young/Jackson for the price of Bogdanovic. And if they do finish with the 5th worst record (or 6th for that matter), the pick has about a 25% chance at falling into the top 3. Now you have some choice of the players I previously listed.

Now the projection could end up being wrong and they could end up with the 7th worst record or even the 9th, but I don't understand the fascination with wanting to hold on to Bogdanovic for the return we have been discussing. You could end up having a Fox-Hield-Doncic-Porter-Giles/Cauley-Stein lineup going into next year with five of your star potential players (Fox, Doncic, Porter, Giles, Labissiere) all being on the same timeline. That's nothing to scoff at.
I would rather package Hield than Bogdan with hill if it could fetch that BKN pick, but if it came down to it I would trade either or even both and take back salary.

I would LIKE to hold onto Bogie but i agree that on a contending team he is the 4th guy. If he is your go to guy then id wager we are at best a bottom seed and 1st round out. Imagine him being covered by Durant or Lenard and you can see the issue.

I would pick another dart at the board and thank Bogdan for providing that dart.