George Hill to the Cavaliers?

The only players who have undesirable contracts on that list are Batum and Dwight. The rest are on good contracts.... even Robin Lopez.


Top 2 protected means nothing because it's highly unlikely that they'd be terrible enough to finish top 3 in standings before the ping pong balls. Lots of people are so sure that Temple and KK will opt out, but I don't think so. Temple is a 32yearold 3&D backup. KK is a backup C. I don't see either player making more than their respective 8mpy, unless they really want to leave the Kings. They'd be desirable for playoff teams, but I only see vet min offers.

In regards to Hill, at what point do you turn the team completely over to Fox? It has to happen right? I see that happening next year. On top of this, we already have Bogdan, Buddy, and maybe Malachi competing for minutes at SG. Hill would be our backup PG, and his value could presumably decrease if he keeps up these inconsistent performances. His stats are good on paper, but we know it doesn't tell the story. I'm not the biggest fan of Mason, but where would this leave him on the depth chart next year? With George Hill, I see him as someone the Kings don't need. He's someone who's peaking right now, and he doesn't sound all that joyful playing for a rebuilding team.
Maybe. We don’t have a draft pick next year so the LIN crowd won’t exist. Kings will be playing their best players to attract free agents. Fox gets time to learn this year but next year the best player will likely play regardless.
 
Pisses me off that there is a camp here that wants to pour cold water on Bogi - wtf is that all about? You gamble on him coming over and being productive when you do the Chriss trade ... and you hit gin - he's your best player and he's 25 - and he's enthusiastic and he's got leadership qualities and he's tough.

And people want to spin him off in a deal for next year's 6th pick as if it is some kind of no-brainer?

Hell nah.
Phoenix was the team gambling in that trade. It was pretty much a foregone conclusion that Bogdan would be productive in the NBA. The Phoenix trade was giving up a lower-floor/higher-ceiling player for a higher-floor/lower ceiling player and getting other assets while you're at it in the significant chance that the raw prospect you gave up busts. If Chriss hits, then Vlade looks like a chump. And for the record, I like that trade since I think Chriss is going to bust.

Would you trade our pick for Malcolm Brogdon? Everything you said about Bogdanovic is true of Brogdon (except the best player part), and this is the best comparison I can think of as they're similar caliber players in my mind. I wouldn't be itching to make that trade; seems kind of a no brainer from Milwaukee's perspective.
 
Pisses me off that there is a camp here that wants to pour cold water on Bogi - wtf is that all about? You gamble on him coming over and being productive when you do the Chriss trade ... and you hit gin - he's your best player and he's 25 - and he's enthusiastic and he's got leadership qualities and he's tough.

And people want to spin him off in a deal for next year's 6th pick as if it is some kind of no-brainer?

Hell nah.
I sometimes think that we’ve got a bunch of people on this board who spend so much time playing fantasy basketball that they no longer see players as real basketball players. They’ve been reduced to baseball cards. Easily acquired, easily traded, and easily discarded.
 
I sometimes think that we’ve got a bunch of people on this board who spend so much time playing fantasy basketball that they no longer see players as real basketball players. They’ve been reduced to baseball cards. Easily acquired, easily traded, and easily discarded.
The NBA is a business. Like all businesses, every employee is expendable.

Fans can be ridiculously biased when it comes to evaluating their own players. 3 years ago, there were fans claiming they would never trade Cousins for Lebron because Lebron was declining. Harry Giles has not played basketball at a high level since his junior year in HIGHSCHOOL, yet we have a whole thread dedicated to how he'll be a 10x NBA-All Star. Fox and Bogdan are also 10x all-stars too. They're untouchable.

This thread was dedicated to talking about the rumors and potential trades surrounding it. Of course you are going to see fans proposing trades. Not sure what you are expecting?
 
The NBA is a business. Like all businesses, every employee is expendable.

Fans can be ridiculously biased when it comes to evaluating their own players. 3 years ago, there were fans claiming they would never trade Cousins for Lebron because Lebron was declining. Harry Giles has not played basketball at a high level since his junior year in HIGHSCHOOL, yet we have a whole thread dedicated to how he'll be a 10x NBA-All Star. Fox and Bogdan are also 10x all-stars too. They're untouchable.

This thread was dedicated to talking about the rumors and potential trades surrounding it. Of course you are going to see fans proposing trades. Not sure what you are expecting?
It seems to me that these fans have not learnt anything in the last 10 or so years.

Here is what irks the crap out of me. The constant over rating of draft picks and always thinking that the grass is greener on the other side. In the last 10 years the King have drafted nad or traded for amongst others the likes of DeMarcus Cousins, Isaiah Thomas, Hassan Whiteside, Rudy Gay, Bogdan Bogdanović, and this newer bunch. If the front office/ownership and fans had a pinch of patience Kings would be a play off team. The belief that the grass is always greener has got us to the position we are in now. Essentially back at square one after a decade of incompetence and brain dead decisions.

There was a fraction of those who believed that DeMarcus Cousins was all things wrong with Sacramento and just by trading him we would be a better team and would be a play off team this year. It is these unrealistic and short sighted expectations that are big part of the problem.

I know we are living in the “what have you done for me lately” age. Everyone should be discarded if they don’t meet the fans lofty and pretty unrealistic expectations.

Point is these are all very YOUNG players and there is LOADS and I mean LOADS of development left in this bunch. There are 10 players with less than 3 years of NBA experience. We don’t know what we have in a lot of cases. These players in 2018 will not be the same players in 3 years time. They will develop and get better. Some of them will be here, some won’t. The point here for the franchise is to identify the players that we want to keep. I am pretty sure Bogdanović is one of those guys. You don’t trade those guys for a gamble that may or may not turn put to be better players.

Bogdan is the type of player that can fit in any system you want to run. You want half court princeton type offense? No problem! You want to run and play fast paced?! Sure! You want to feed the post player all game long?! That’s cool too! So why would you want that type of player for a chance at something that might be better when that player can be part of your building block and play with any type of franchise player you end up getting?

Bogdan is a Spurs type player. Popovich would LOVE him. Spurs have been best franchise in last 20 years and a good part of their success has in fact been their ability to identify players like Bogdan and keep them around regardless who their franchise player is at that time.

The bottom line is you need to get a franchise player or two to get it done. But those players won’t get it done by themselves. They will need help from quality players that fit with them. We had our star in Cousins but couldn’t put a team around him for 7 years. Let’s not make the same mistake again. Keep trying to get a franchise guy but you need to be getting good players too.

Is Bogdan untouchable?! No he is not but he sure as hell is not expendable for a pick that might get you a better player. Kings would have no trouble including Bogdan into a deal for a franchise player but they are not going to do it on a maybe.
 
The NBA is a business. Like all businesses, every employee is expendable.
This is not a good way to treat people, and will come back to bite you. It’s why Hinkie got forced out. Sixers’ team morale was in the toilet. The Lakers are going through this now. Ainge, for all the fanboi hype, has attracted two free agents in Horford and Heyward and only Horford really counts. Heyward came for Stephens. We’ll see how Ainge does after what he pulled on IT.

Everyone talks about the Spurs all the time and how they are a model franchise. Know what their secret sauce is? Their players are not expendable. That’s it...that’s the big secret. They make trades, but they are extremely upfront about it, and they do crazy things like try not to make midseason trades of vets with kids in school. Kind of like how we didn’t ship out Collison just have an extra second round pick.
 
Watched Cavs and Thunder sporadically yesterday and I'm not sure George Hill is what they need (not a knock on Hill), looked to me like they are missing an interior presence and need that more than a combo guard.
 
The Cavs are in a unique situation that can be exploited, namely they have the threat of LeBron leaving looming over their franchise if they do NOT return to the Finals.

This is the kind of opportunity you want to take advantage of as an opposing GM. Vlade is likely oblivious to this. He rarely recognizes opportunity he squanders it (see Boogie Trade).

George Hill is a negative asset due 30M between now and end of next year. He's a negative asset to us and probably every other team in the NBA except the Cavs!

This when it would be nice to be a shrewd negotiator. But our GM does not like to talk on the phone. Perhaps an IT specialist can install Skype into Vlade's laptop so a deal can be considered and consummated.

Barring that we will have to hope Vlade runs into the Cavs GM at the concession stand during the All Star game. Between his order of soda nachos and sausage dogs, the direction of the franchise can be altered.

The futility of George Hill for the next 18 months cannot be understated.

While Fox has not developed as nicely or quickly as we would like, though he is still a franchise level player, Boggy and Frank have been better than anticipated.

In particular Boggy has shown uncanny PG skills with an acceptable number of misreads and blunders on the decline.

Boggy takes the pressure of Fox and Frank by being able to make plays in the half court and allow them to play more off the ball.

Independent of Boggy, Frank is a capable back-up in this league maybe more. This was NOT definitively known at the time of the Hill signing.

These factors makes Hill expendable even before we analyze his comatose unaggressive play for most of the year.

Fox is also likely to make significant strides play 30+ MPG the second half of the year.

I see Fox as a 16 PPG 8 APG player over 35 MPG with improving defense. This is commensurate with John Walls rookie performance.

(De'Aaron is 13 PPG and 6 APG in January. This numbers will go up when Z-Bud gets out his way.)

The Cavs allowed 148 points to the Thunder yesterday on their home floor. They need a shake-up and redefining trade in the worst way.

JR Smith is an unconscious gunner who plays matador defense. Remember Marco and his play with the Kings? Or Marcus Thornton towards the end of his tenure? Thats JR Smith!

JR Smith has a Stauskas-like 7.5 PER. He shoots a Ben-like 34% from deep though he manages to shoot 5 long balls per game! His defense sucks too!

The appeal of Hill to the Cavs is obvious. He replaces JR Smith minutes. He defends both guard spots and he nails open threes.

With Love and LeBron out of the block and Isaiah driving and dishing George Hill will get open threes.

I hope this trade goes down because I don't want to see the Celtics in the Finals independent of getting out from under Hill's contract. I DO want to see Isaiah get to the Finals. That would be glorious!

As far as a deal that can work with both parties, I would certainly look to include Koufos. I think it would also be a nice gesture to send Koufos to a winner.

Maybe this karma would come back to the Kings on 2018 Lottery Day when we get awarded with the #1 pick. :)

The problem with ANY trade involving Hill and Koufos is that it likely requires inclusion of JR Smith (13.7M * 50% / 14.7M / 15.7 M) AND / OR Tristan Thompson (16.4M * 50% / 17.4 M / 18.5 M) whose contracts run in 2019/20.

Taking on 16M or 18M in 2019/2020 is a NON-starter unless we get the 2018 Nets pick.

I would add Malachi or Justin Jackson to get the Nets pick, NOT Boggy or Frank or Giles or Skal, to get that pick.

The 2019 #1 Cavs pick is garbage. Even if the Cavs lose LeBron they are still going to be a .500 team with the competitiveness of the owner and willingness to spend.

Assuming Vlade still has a job by then there is only a 20-30% chance he picks a guy with any future in the league with a mid first rounder.

So the BEST course of action is to HOLD OUT FIRMLY for the Nets pick under these confines and knowing the Cavs are desperate to make a run this year to keep LeBron.

This is what a good (great) negotiator does. Then maybe on the day of the deadline you offer to include Frank Mason to close the deal and get the Nets pick.

You have to be the predator not the preyed upon. This is how you succeed in a dog eat dog world. :)

Then you buy out and waive Smith and Thompson and go into the 2018 draft and get Doncic and Ayton.....profit!

Obviously the Cavs are going to be highly reluctant to part with the Nets pick because that is their REBUILDING CHIP if LeBron walks.

But that pick is not looking like a Top 5 it is looking more like Top 10.

Ultimately I do NOT think the Cavs will trade that pick for the serviceable flotsam and jetsam that is Hill and Koufos and Frank Mason as a sweetener.

But if I am the Cavs GM I am pretty much bending over backwards to keep LeBron for the rest of his career when he is playing incredible basketball at age 32 with at least 3-4 more dominant years ahead of him.

LeBron's indestructibleness is a variable that has to play into the panic-like intention to keep him around. The Cavs NEED to make to move. It is a desperate code red situation for them.

It is not a code red situation for the Kings. We can let Hill and Koufos wallow out the remainder of their deals. We are bottom feeders every year. Whats another 18 months with them in tow? :)

Anyway Vlade holds the cards in potential deal with Cavs. Not the other way around. Proceed accordingly.
 
This is not a good way to treat people, and will come back to bite you. It’s why Hinkie got forced out. Sixers’ team morale was in the toilet. The Lakers are going through this now. Ainge, for all the fanboi hype, has attracted two free agents in Horford and Heyward and only Horford really counts. Heyward came for Stephens. We’ll see how Ainge does after what he pulled on IT.

Everyone talks about the Spurs all the time and how they are a model franchise. Know what their secret sauce is? Their players are not expendable. That’s it...that’s the big secret. They make trades, but they are extremely upfront about it, and they do crazy things like try not to make midseason trades of vets with kids in school. Kind of like how we didn’t ship out Collison just have an extra second round pick.
It's a fine way to treat people as long as it makes you a better team. If you think you can trade one player to get a better player you do it. Hinkie got forced out because he was blatantly tanking and was open about it so the NBA stepped in and got rid of him. Look at the 6ers now. Arguably the best up and coming team in the league all thanks to Hinkie.
 
The Cavs are in a unique situation that can be exploited, namely they have the threat of LeBron leaving looming over their franchise if they do NOT return to the Finals.

This is the kind of opportunity you want to take advantage of as an opposing GM. Vlade is likely oblivious to this. He rarely recognizes opportunity he squanders it (see Boogie Trade).

George Hill is a negative asset due 30M between now and end of next year. He's a negative asset to us and probably every other team in the NBA except the Cavs!

This when it would be nice to be a shrewd negotiator. But our GM does not like to talk on the phone. Perhaps an IT specialist can install Skype into Vlade's laptop so a deal can be considered and consummated.

Barring that we will have to hope Vlade runs into the Cavs GM at the concession stand during the All Star game. Between his order of soda nachos and sausage dogs, the direction of the franchise can be altered.

The futility of George Hill for the next 18 months cannot be understated.

While Fox has not developed as nicely or quickly as we would like, though he is still a franchise level player, Boggy and Frank have been better than anticipated.

In particular Boggy has shown uncanny PG skills with an acceptable number of misreads and blunders on the decline.

Boggy takes the pressure of Fox and Frank by being able to make plays in the half court and allow them to play more off the ball.

Independent of Boggy, Frank is a capable back-up in this league maybe more. This was NOT definitively known at the time of the Hill signing.

These factors makes Hill expendable even before we analyze his comatose unaggressive play for most of the year.

Fox is also likely to make significant strides play 30+ MPG the second half of the year.

I see Fox as a 16 PPG 8 APG player over 35 MPG with improving defense. This is commensurate with John Walls rookie performance.

(De'Aaron is 13 PPG and 6 APG in January. This numbers will go up when Z-Bud gets out his way.)

The Cavs allowed 148 points to the Thunder yesterday on their home floor. They need a shake-up and redefining trade in the worst way.

JR Smith is an unconscious gunner who plays matador defense. Remember Marco and his play with the Kings? Or Marcus Thornton towards the end of his tenure? Thats JR Smith!

JR Smith has a Stauskas-like 7.5 PER. He shoots a Ben-like 34% from deep though he manages to shoot 5 long balls per game! His defense sucks too!

The appeal of Hill to the Cavs is obvious. He replaces JR Smith minutes. He defends both guard spots and he nails open threes.

With Love and LeBron out of the block and Isaiah driving and dishing George Hill will get open threes.

I hope this trade goes down because I don't want to see the Celtics in the Finals independent of getting out from under Hill's contract. I DO want to see Isaiah get to the Finals. That would be glorious!

As far as a deal that can work with both parties, I would certainly look to include Koufos. I think it would also be a nice gesture to send Koufos to a winner.

Maybe this karma would come back to the Kings on 2018 Lottery Day when we get awarded with the #1 pick. :)

The problem with ANY trade involving Hill and Koufos is that it likely requires inclusion of JR Smith (13.7M * 50% / 14.7M / 15.7 M) AND / OR Tristan Thompson (16.4M * 50% / 17.4 M / 18.5 M) whose contracts run in 2019/20.

Taking on 16M or 18M in 2019/2020 is a NON-starter unless we get the 2018 Nets pick.

I would add Malachi or Justin Jackson to get the Nets pick, NOT Boggy or Frank or Giles or Skal, to get that pick.

The 2019 #1 Cavs pick is garbage. Even if the Cavs lose LeBron they are still going to be a .500 team with the competitiveness of the owner and willingness to spend.

Assuming Vlade still has a job by then there is only a 20-30% chance he picks a guy with any future in the league with a mid first rounder.

So the BEST course of action is to HOLD OUT FIRMLY for the Nets pick under these confines and knowing the Cavs are desperate to make a run this year to keep LeBron.

This is what a good (great) negotiator does. Then maybe on the day of the deadline you offer to include Frank Mason to close the deal and get the Nets pick.

You have to be the predator not the preyed upon. This is how you succeed in a dog eat dog world. :)

Then you buy out and waive Smith and Thompson and go into the 2018 draft and get Doncic and Ayton.....profit!

Obviously the Cavs are going to be highly reluctant to part with the Nets pick because that is their REBUILDING CHIP if LeBron walks.

But that pick is not looking like a Top 5 it is looking more like Top 10.

Ultimately I do NOT think the Cavs will trade that pick for the serviceable flotsam and jetsam that is Hill and Koufos and Frank Mason as a sweetener.

But if I am the Cavs GM I am pretty much bending over backwards to keep LeBron for the rest of his career when he is playing incredible basketball at age 32 with at least 3-4 more dominant years ahead of him.

LeBron's indestructibleness is a variable that has to play into the panic-like intention to keep him around. The Cavs NEED to make to move. It is a desperate code red situation for them.

It is not a code red situation for the Kings. We can let Hill and Koufos wallow out the remainder of their deals. We are bottom feeders every year. Whats another 18 months with them in tow? :)

Anyway Vlade holds the cards in potential deal with Cavs. Not the other way around. Proceed accordingly.
I think we are on the same page as far as strategy. Anything involving a Kardashian or the shirtless chucker should immediately command the BK pick they are just so far into the negative to take them for less. Outside of them players like shumpert, Frye I would take the Cle pick.
 
It seems to me that these fans have not learnt anything in the last 10 or so years.

Here is what irks the poopoo out of me. The constant over rating of draft picks and always thinking that the grass is greener on the other side. In the last 10 years the King have drafted nad or traded for amongst others the likes of DeMarcus Cousins, Isaiah Thomas, Hassan Whiteside, Rudy Gay, Bogdan Bogdanović, and this newer bunch. If the front office/ownership and fans had a pinch of patience Kings would be a play off team. The belief that the grass is always greener has got us to the position we are in now. Essentially back at square one after a decade of incompetence and brain dead decisions.

There was a fraction of those who believed that DeMarcus Cousins was all things wrong with Sacramento and just by trading him we would be a better team and would be a play off team this year. It is these unrealistic and short sighted expectations that are big part of the problem.

I know we are living in the “what have you done for me lately” age. Everyone should be discarded if they don’t meet the fans lofty and pretty unrealistic expectations.

Point is these are all very YOUNG players and there is LOADS and I mean LOADS of development left in this bunch. There are 10 players with less than 3 years of NBA experience. We don’t know what we have in a lot of cases. These players in 2018 will not be the same players in 3 years time. They will develop and get better. Some of them will be here, some won’t. The point here for the franchise is to identify the players that we want to keep. I am pretty sure Bogdanović is one of those guys. You don’t trade those guys for a gamble that may or may not turn put to be better players.

Bogdan is the type of player that can fit in any system you want to run. You want half court princeton type offense? No problem! You want to run and play fast paced?! Sure! You want to feed the post player all game long?! That’s cool too! So why would you want that type of player for a chance at something that might be better when that player can be part of your building block and play with any type of franchise player you end up getting?

Bogdan is a Spurs type player. Popovich would LOVE him. Spurs have been best franchise in last 20 years and a good part of their success has in fact been their ability to identify players like Bogdan and keep them around regardless who their franchise player is at that time.

The bottom line is you need to get a franchise player or two to get it done. But those players won’t get it done by themselves. They will need help from quality players that fit with them. We had our star in Cousins but couldn’t put a team around him for 7 years. Let’s not make the same mistake again. Keep trying to get a franchise guy but you need to be getting good players too.

Is Bogdan untouchable?! No he is not but he sure as hell is not expendable for a pick that might get you a better player. Kings would have no trouble including Bogdan into a deal for a franchise player but they are not going to do it on a maybe.
Great post.
 
I turn on Vlade and I mean hard if he gives up Bogi. He is our very best piece. He better not dare.
Being our "very best piece" isn't saying much.

He is my favorite Kings player and I would say he is our best player, but that doesn't mean I wouldn't be willing to move him for a pick that currently sits at 7th, is 0.5 games away from 5th, and 3.5 games away from 1st. Not to mention if it does land at 5 or 6 it has about a 25% chance of landing in the top 3. Obviously the odds say it's not likely but can you imagine coming away with two top 3 picks from this draft? Having two of Doncic, Ayton, Porter, & Bagley would be franchise changing.

Again, the odds say that the pick will stay close to where it's at but you cant deny the significance of another 25% chance to get into the top 3. A lineup/core of...

PG - Fox / Mason
SG - Hield / Richardson
SF - Doncic / Jackson
PF - Porter / Labissiere
C - Cauley-Stein / Giles / Papagiannis

...could be very, very special.
 

VF21

Super Moderator Emeritus
SME
Phoenix was the team gambling in that trade. It was pretty much a foregone conclusion that Bogdan would be productive in the NBA. The Phoenix trade was giving up a lower-floor/higher-ceiling player for a higher-floor/lower ceiling player and getting other assets while you're at it in the significant chance that the raw prospect you gave up busts. If Chriss hits, then Vlade looks like a chump. And for the record, I like that trade since I think Chriss is going to bust.

Would you trade our pick for Malcolm Brogdon? Everything you said about Bogdanovic is true of Brogdon (except the best player part), and this is the best comparison I can think of as they're similar caliber players in my mind. I wouldn't be itching to make that trade; seems kind of a no brainer from Milwaukee's perspective.
That's revisionist history. There was wide-spread speculation that Bogs would NEVER leave Europe, preferring to stay as a big fish in that particular pond. That's why Phoenix traded his rights.
 
Being our "very best piece" isn't saying much.

He is my favorite Kings player and I would say he is our best player, but that doesn't mean I wouldn't be willing to move him for a pick that currently sits at 7th, is 0.5 games away from 5th, and 3.5 games away from 1st. Not to mention if it does land at 5 or 6 it has about a 25% chance of landing in the top 3. Obviously the odds say it's not likely but can you imagine coming away with two top 3 picks from this draft? Having two of Doncic, Ayton, Porter, & Bagley would be franchise changing.

Again, the odds say that the pick will stay close to where it's at but you cant deny the significance of another 25% chance to get into the top 3. A lineup/core of...

PG - Fox / Mason
SG - Hield / Richardson
SF - Doncic / Jackson
PF - Porter / Labissiere
C - Cauley-Stein / Giles / Papagiannis

...could be very, very special.
I do deny it. Bogi for #7 I think is crazy. I have not pre-checked this and it is only speculation... what happens if we look at the last 20 guys who were picked 7th, and see how many wind up better than Bogi. Maybe that experiment will prove me wrong... I don't have the results at my fingertips.
 
I do deny it. Bogi for #7 I think is crazy. I have not pre-checked this and it is only speculation... what happens if we look at the last 20 guys who were picked 7th, and see how many wind up better than Bogi. Maybe that experiment will prove me wrong... I don't have the results at my fingertips.
You can deny the significance of a 25% chance at a top 3 pick? Why? How?

Let's play through this hypothetical which will hopefully illustrate my point my clearly...

How good will this team be if Bogdanovic is our best player? Maybe we can be a 30-40 win team?
How good will this team be if we drafted a star player with the BKN pick? Maybe we can be a 40-50 win team?
How good will this team be if we drafted a bust with the BKN pick? Maybe we can be a 20-30 win team?

Topping out as a 30-40 win team isn't something that is attractive to me as fan. Now I understand there are fans that would just be ecstatic to make the playoffs (even though they aren't a real threat) but I am not. I understand that the pick can result in a worse player than Bogdan. There is no denying that. But the pick can also easily become someone better than Bogdan and a player who could potentially be a great player on a great team.

So yes, I would rather us invest in assets that could be stars or franchise players because the difference between 20-30 wins and 30-40 wins doesn't get me excited (and I know that other people here don't feel the same way). The difference between 20-30 wins and 40-50 wins does. If the pick doesn't work out, then we're still bad and we stay in contention for high picks in upcoming years. If the pick does work out like we hope, we're one star closer to a great team.
 

gunks

Hall of Famer
You can deny the significance of a 25% chance at a top 3 pick? Why? How?

Let's play through this hypothetical which will hopefully illustrate my point my clearly...

How good will this team be if Bogdanovic is our best player? Maybe we can be a 30-40 win team?
How good will this team be if we drafted a star player with the BKN pick? Maybe we can be a 40-50 win team?
How good will this team be if we drafted a bust with the BKN pick? Maybe we can be a 20-30 win team?

Topping out as a 30-40 win team isn't something that is attractive to me as fan. Now I understand there are fans that would just be ecstatic to make the playoffs (even though they aren't a real threat) but I am not. I understand that the pick can result in a worse player than Bogdan. There is no denying that. But the pick can also easily become someone better than Bogdan and a player who could potentially be a great player on a great team.

So yes, I would rather us invest in assets that could be stars or franchise players because the difference between 20-30 wins and 30-40 wins doesn't get me excited (and I know that other people here don't feel the same way). The difference between 20-30 wins and 40-50 wins does. If the pick doesn't work out, then we're still bad and we stay in contention for high picks in upcoming years. If the pick does work out like we hope, we're one star closer to a great team.
You're thinking like a fan of a team that drafts well.
 
You can deny the significance of a 25% chance at a top 3 pick? Why? How?

Let's play through this hypothetical which will hopefully illustrate my point my clearly...

How good will this team be if Bogdanovic is our best player? Maybe we can be a 30-40 win team?
How good will this team be if we drafted a star player with the BKN pick? Maybe we can be a 40-50 win team?
How good will this team be if we drafted a bust with the BKN pick? Maybe we can be a 20-30 win team?

Topping out as a 30-40 win team isn't something that is attractive to me as fan. Now I understand there are fans that would just be ecstatic to make the playoffs (even though they aren't a real threat) but I am not. I understand that the pick can result in a worse player than Bogdan. There is no denying that. But the pick can also easily become someone better than Bogdan and a player who could potentially be a great player on a great team.

So yes, I would rather us invest in assets that could be stars or franchise players because the difference between 20-30 wins and 30-40 wins doesn't get me excited (and I know that other people here don't feel the same way). The difference between 20-30 wins and 40-50 wins does. If the pick doesn't work out, then we're still bad and we stay in contention for high picks in upcoming years. If the pick does work out like we hope, we're one star closer to a great team.
This guy just won’t stop beating a dead horse. The teams not trading Bogdan and we’re not receiving the Nets pick, but by all means continue with your delusions.
 
We are allowed to talk about hypotheticals. No need to hold a grudge because you proposed a poor deal earlier and I called you on it.
Your idea of what a poor deal is means nothing to me because from what I can see you don’t know much about building a team or a winning culture which is priority numbero uno to this FO. You want to sell low on a guy that’s barely played about half an NBA season to get a shot at drafting and developing some kid in the 6-10 range and just hoping for the best. Mindsets like that is how bad teams stay bad and remain on a treadmill to nowhere because the grass is always greener with you. This draft is about 5 deep and anybody after that is a crap shoot so if I had a chance to do Bogie for a pick in that range straight up, I’m keeping the guy who’s already shown incredible feel for the game and a competitor with a good attitude who our core seems to already have chemistry with. But that’s just me.
 
Your idea of what a poor deal is means nothing to me because from what I can see you don’t know much about building a team or a winning culture which is priority numbero uno to this FO. You want to sell low on a guy that’s barely played about half an NBA season to get a shot at drafting and developing some kid in the 6-10 range and just hoping for the best. Mindsets like that is how bad teams stay bad and remain on a treadmill to nowhere because the grass is always greener with you. This draft is about 5 deep and anybody after that is a crap shoot so if I had a chance to do Bogie for a pick in that range straight up, I’m keeping the guy who’s already shown incredible feel for the game and a competitor with a good attitude who our core seems to already have chemistry with. But that’s just me.
You were in favor of taking on a worse contract without any incentive. That's an indication that you don't know much about building a team.

How is trading Bogdan for a pick that could land 5-10 selling low (with a 13%-25% chance of landing in the top 3)? Seriously? Do you know what some of the star players around the league have been going for?

You don't understand what the term treadmill means. Treadmill means that you are caught in mediocrity where you are never one of the worst teams but also never a threat in the playoffs. That's what should be avoided. Staying bad until you find your stars is not a bad thing. It's how you ultimately find THE guys that can lead your team. Nobody has shown signs of being that type of player yet (not saying it can't happen) so we should remain in the mindset that finding these guys is a priority.
 
I do deny it. Bogi for #7 I think is crazy. I have not pre-checked this and it is only speculation... what happens if we look at the last 20 guys who were picked 7th, and see how many wind up better than Bogi. Maybe that experiment will prove me wrong... I don't have the results at my fingertips.
Well, I went ahead and did that since I have no life, but here are the results from 1998 to now.

Jason Williams
Richard Hamilton
Chris Mihm
Eddie Griffin
Nene
Kirk Hinrich
Luol Deng
Charlie Villanueva
Randy Foye
Corey Brewer
Eric Gordon
Stephen Curry
Greg Monroe
Bismack Biyombo
Harrison Barnes
Ben McLemore
Julius Randle
Emmanuel Mudiay
Jamal Murray
Lauri Markkanen

Of course, #7 is just an arbitrary number we picked. Curry is the only franchise centerpiece at this point, but at least half of these guys are better. You've got one MVP, a few couple-time all stars, a couple promising players for the recent ones, some starters, and a handful of busts.
 
It seems to me that these fans have not learnt anything in the last 10 or so years.

Here is what irks the poopoo out of me. The constant over rating of draft picks and always thinking that the grass is greener on the other side. In the last 10 years the King have drafted nad or traded for amongst others the likes of DeMarcus Cousins, Isaiah Thomas, Hassan Whiteside, Rudy Gay, Bogdan Bogdanović, and this newer bunch. If the front office/ownership and fans had a pinch of patience Kings would be a play off team. The belief that the grass is always greener has got us to the position we are in now. Essentially back at square one after a decade of incompetence and brain dead decisions.

There was a fraction of those who believed that DeMarcus Cousins was all things wrong with Sacramento and just by trading him we would be a better team and would be a play off team this year. It is these unrealistic and short sighted expectations that are big part of the problem.

I know we are living in the “what have you done for me lately” age. Everyone should be discarded if they don’t meet the fans lofty and pretty unrealistic expectations.

Point is these are all very YOUNG players and there is LOADS and I mean LOADS of development left in this bunch. There are 10 players with less than 3 years of NBA experience. We don’t know what we have in a lot of cases. These players in 2018 will not be the same players in 3 years time. They will develop and get better. Some of them will be here, some won’t. The point here for the franchise is to identify the players that we want to keep. I am pretty sure Bogdanović is one of those guys. You don’t trade those guys for a gamble that may or may not turn put to be better players.

Bogdan is the type of player that can fit in any system you want to run. You want half court princeton type offense? No problem! You want to run and play fast paced?! Sure! You want to feed the post player all game long?! That’s cool too! So why would you want that type of player for a chance at something that might be better when that player can be part of your building block and play with any type of franchise player you end up getting?

Bogdan is a Spurs type player. Popovich would LOVE him. Spurs have been best franchise in last 20 years and a good part of their success has in fact been their ability to identify players like Bogdan and keep them around regardless who their franchise player is at that time.

The bottom line is you need to get a franchise player or two to get it done. But those players won’t get it done by themselves. They will need help from quality players that fit with them. We had our star in Cousins but couldn’t put a team around him for 7 years. Let’s not make the same mistake again. Keep trying to get a franchise guy but you need to be getting good players too.

Is Bogdan untouchable?! No he is not but he sure as hell is not expendable for a pick that might get you a better player. Kings would have no trouble including Bogdan into a deal for a franchise player but they are not going to do it on a maybe.
No, the problem of the Kings for the last 10 years is solely due to the horrific ownership and even more horrible front office. It is not this idea of "the grass is greener on the other side". It's the dumbass front office that can't hit their draft picks. Who has drafted as many busts as the Kings in recent history? Jimmer Fredette, Thomas Robinson, Ben McLemore, and Nik Stauskas.
If the front office/ownership and fans had a pinch of patience Kings would be a play off team.
Kings should be patient with their draft picks? Truth be told, these guys showed day 1 that they did not belong in the NBA...just like a lot of the players we have on our team. But ok, let's continue to be "patient".
There are 10 players with less than 3 years of NBA experience. We don’t know what we have in a lot of cases. These players in 2018 will not be the same players in 3 years time. They will develop and get better. Some of them will be here, some won’t.
I'm tired of hearing this because I don't care. I don't care that they have less than 3 years experience. Donovan Mitchell has 44 games experience in the NBA. Lauri Markkanen has 44 games experience in the NBA. Yes, I will acknowledge that players develop at difference paces, but it's not hard to look at someone like Papagiannis and know that he's not an NBA players right now. It's not hard to look at Skal and know that he has one of the lowest IQs in the league. It's not hard to look at Malachi and know that he needs to find a niche or get things going or else he could be out of this league by year 5. The 2011 Bobcats had 15 players on the roster, but it doesn't mean they were all NBA players.

Bogdan is the type of player that can fit in any system you want to run. I am pretty sure Bogdanović is one of those guys. You don’t trade those guys for a gamble that may or may not turn put to be better players.
I agree with this very much! However, the Kings are at a crossroads where we don't have a franchise player. Regarding Bogdan, it would be an entirely different story if we had Cousins on this roster still. But we don't. The Kings desperately need to find one. You don't win in this league without one. Now, if you knew you had slim chance, but a chance, to get a franchise player if you traded Bogdan, would you do it? Most would say no because they have an emotional attachment to Bogdan. Let's use another player. If you're Orlando(another rebuilding team)and if you could trade Fournier for a top 10 pick, would you? Most Kings fans would probably say yes. Fun fact, Fournier is younger than Bogdanovic. Fun fact, he's had 356 NBA games compared to Bogdan's 42 NBA games. What makes Bogdan different? Emotional attachment.

The bottom line is you need to get a franchise player or two to get it done. But those players won’t get it done by themselves. They will need help from quality players that fit with them. We had our star in Cousins but couldn’t put a team around him for 7 years. Let’s not make the same mistake again. Keep trying to get a franchise guy but you need to be getting good players too.
Here's the bottom line for me. It's much easier in the NBA to find players that fit around your franchise player than it is to find a franchise player. It's much easier to find the Klay Thompsons in the world than it is the Steph Currys. Would you seriously use the Kings from the last 10 years as the regular NBA standard? No. Now, you might ask me..well if you know that the last time the Kings had a franchise player, we couldn't do anything with him, what makes me think it'll happen differently this time? nothing really. Just hoping that the Kings can finally get their crap together when it does happen again.

I love Bogdan. He's become my favorite King after I was so damn skeptical of him. He's proved that he can play just as good at the highest league of basketball. I wouldn't give him away for free. In fact, no one has said we should give up Bogdan in hopes to find another Bogdan...that's just dumb. Most who have talked about recent trades surrounding Bogdan are hoping to find a franchise player.
 
You were in favor of taking on a worse contract without any incentive. That's an indication that you don't know much about building a team.

How is trading Bogdan for a pick that could land 5-10 selling low (with a 13%-25% chance of landing in the top 3)? Seriously? Do you know what some of the star players around the league have been going for?

You don't understand what the term treadmill means. Treadmill means that you are caught in mediocrity where you are never one of the worst teams but also never a threat in the playoffs. That's what should be avoided. Staying bad until you find your stars is not a bad thing. It's how you ultimately find THE guys that can lead your team. Nobody has shown signs of being that type of player yet (not saying it can't happen) so we should remain in the mindset that finding these guys is a priority.
You’re exhausting so I’m not gonna go back and forth with you because you’ve proven you’ll sit here and defend yourself all day long and nobody has the energy for that.

Although I do feel I should address the point you attempted to make by insulting the deal I proposed and maybe the difference is I’m thinking realistically, as in like deals that make sense for both sides. We have complained about George Hill all season and you think now we’d be entitled to anything of value? As far as the contract goes, I don’t see it as being a huge hamper on our rebuilding timeline. TT is under contract for 3 more seasons while Hill is another 2 seasons. He absolutely fills a need and instantly becomes our best rebounder, is interchangeable with some of the bigs we have now and he is young enough to run. Kosta is more than likely gone after this season and we will switch Hill out with a cheaper vet point guard that doesn’t demand minutes, realistically TT could end up being a good get and surprise a lot of people, or a solid role player who can play the style we need to be gearing towards at the very least. His contract comes off the books when our young bigs will need to be extended and Calderon can be that third point guard to swap with Hill and does not require a ton of maintenance.

I don’t care to go back and forth but I felt I should address my thought process about the deal I proposed when some keyboard warrior wants to try to insult my knowledge of the game. Anyways, I bid you a farewell and have a terrific day.