George Hill to the Cavaliers?

#91
Hill has value, but nobody is giving more than a late 1st rounder. Have you guys seen the selling market?
  • Kemba is on the trade block and they aren't even asking much for him because they're trying to get rid of salaries.
  • DeAndre Jordan is on the tradeblock, could easily get the Nets pick
  • Clarkson is on the tradeblock
  • Randle
  • Batum
  • MKG
  • Dwight
  • Lou-Will
  • Rob Lopez
  • Nikola Mirotic
  • Evan Fournier
  • Nikola Vucevic
  • Elfrid Payton
  • Still other names yet to come out. According to Lowe, Miami is really looking to shed salary right now, just not Dragic though.
lol there's at least 4 players on that list who I would rather take instead of Hill for the Nets pick.
 
#92
Yeah, um ... no. I seriously doubt if Vlade is going to entertain trading away Bogdan.
He won't but he should honestly consider it. High picks are the gold standard in today's NBA as an asset. Call up any other bottom ten team and offer Bogdan for their pick and they'll hang up the phone right after they're done dying of laughter. No one on this team other than Fox would be able to fetch a Top 10 pick from another team.
 
#93
Hill has value, but nobody is giving more than a late 1st rounder. Have you guys seen the selling market?
  • Kemba is on the trade block and they aren't even asking much for him because they're trying to get rid of salaries.
  • DeAndre Jordan is on the tradeblock, could easily get the Nets pick
  • Clarkson is on the tradeblock
  • Randle
  • Batum
  • MKG
  • Dwight
  • Lou-Will
  • Rob Lopez
  • Nikola Mirotic
  • Evan Fournier
  • Nikola Vucevic
  • Elfrid Payton
  • Still other names yet to come out. According to Lowe, Miami is really looking to shed salary right now, just not Dragic though.
lol there's at least 4 players on that list who I would rather take instead of Hill for the Nets pick.
A lot of these guys have undesirable contracts which is why teams want to dump them. Plus kings can take back some bad salary
 

Capt. Factorial

trifolium contra tempestatem subrigere certum est
Staff member
#95
Come on Capt. Do you seriously believe Hill is remotely worth the Nets pick? That's ridiculous. Did the Belinelli trade set high expectations for some? Would you really want Hill eating up 20million cap space next year on the bench? I wouldn't.
I've been pretty clear that I think that Hill is worth more than the CLE 2018 pick, and that the next option up is the BRK pick. You will note that I have offered protections on the BRK pick, so no, I don't think that Hill is worth the unprotected BRK pick.

But frankly, I don't know if I care if Hill is eating up $19M in cap space next year - and of course he'd be playing if he were. He's too good of a player to rot on the bench, and I think we all know this despite his poor showing in Sacramento thus far this year. But if Koufos and Temple get out while the getting is good (they have opt-outs for next year) we might be in the low $70M range after our draft picks if we KEEP Hill and be looking up $15-20M at the salary floor. His deal is not killing our salary cap. The only thing it is really doing is keeping us from having enough room to sign LeBron. I can live with that.
 
#97
A lot of these guys have undesirable contracts which is why teams want to dump them. Plus kings can take back some bad salary
The only players who have undesirable contracts on that list are Batum and Dwight. The rest are on good contracts.... even Robin Lopez.

I've been pretty clear that I think that Hill is worth more than the CLE 2018 pick, and that the next option up is the BRK pick. You will note that I have offered protections on the BRK pick, so no, I don't think that Hill is worth the unprotected BRK pick.

But frankly, I don't know if I care if Hill is eating up $19M in cap space next year - and of course he'd be playing if he were. He's too good of a player to rot on the bench, and I think we all know this despite his poor showing in Sacramento thus far this year. But if Koufos and Temple get out while the getting is good (they have opt-outs for next year) we might be in the low $70M range after our draft picks if we KEEP Hill and be looking up $15-20M at the salary floor. His deal is not killing our salary cap. The only thing it is really doing is keeping us from having enough room to sign LeBron. I can live with that.
Top 2 protected means nothing because it's highly unlikely that they'd be terrible enough to finish top 3 in standings before the ping pong balls. Lots of people are so sure that Temple and KK will opt out, but I don't think so. Temple is a 32yearold 3&D backup. KK is a backup C. I don't see either player making more than their respective 8mpy, unless they really want to leave the Kings. They'd be desirable for playoff teams, but I only see vet min offers.

In regards to Hill, at what point do you turn the team completely over to Fox? It has to happen right? I see that happening next year. On top of this, we already have Bogdan, Buddy, and maybe Malachi competing for minutes at SG. Hill would be our backup PG, and his value could presumably decrease if he keeps up these inconsistent performances. His stats are good on paper, but we know it doesn't tell the story. I'm not the biggest fan of Mason, but where would this leave him on the depth chart next year? With George Hill, I see him as someone the Kings don't need. He's someone who's peaking right now, and he doesn't sound all that joyful playing for a rebuilding team.
 
#98
Call up any other bottom ten team and offer Bogdan for their pick and they'll hang up the phone right after they're done dying of laughter. No one on this team other than Fox would be able to fetch a Top 10 pick from another team.
I'm actually laughing at this post positioned as fact. Cause it's not.

If Bogie were available in this upcoming draft, it's highly likely he'd be a lottery pick and inside the top 10.
 
No way we get the Nets pick for Hill.

I would be more than happy with the Cavs 1st round pick for Hill though. :):D;)
I agree, but at the same time ... that Brooklyn pick might not be as valuable as Cleveland hoped and fans think. Right now, Brooklyn is tied for the 7th worst record with a couple teams not far ahead of them. The next couple weeks will be key, but they could very well end up in the 7-10 range. Nice pick, but not the same value of top 5 or 6.

If the Kings could land the Cavs pick, perhaps they could trade it along with their high 2nd to move up to the teens or for a future 1st in 2019?
 
Hill has value, but nobody is giving more than a late 1st rounder. Have you guys seen the selling market?
  • Kemba is on the trade block and they aren't even asking much for him because they're trying to get rid of salaries.
  • DeAndre Jordan is on the tradeblock, could easily get the Nets pick
  • Clarkson is on the tradeblock
  • Randle
  • Batum
  • MKG
  • Dwight
  • Lou-Will
  • Rob Lopez
  • Nikola Mirotic
  • Evan Fournier
  • Nikola Vucevic
  • Elfrid Payton
  • Still other names yet to come out. According to Lowe, Miami is really looking to shed salary right now, just not Dragic though.
lol there's at least 4 players on that list who I would rather take instead of Hill for the Nets pick.
I think the competition is for PGs, and thankfully aside from Kemba, who isn’t in Hill’s trade market, I don’t see the other proven serviceable PGs, and I think at least 5-6 teams could use one down the stretch of the season. I agree though that I don’t see the discussion with Hill and the Nets pick
 
I'm actually laughing at this post positioned as fact. Cause it's not.

If Bogie were available in this upcoming draft, it's highly likely he'd be a lottery pick and inside the top 10.
Um... no.

When's the last time a 25 year old Euro with years of pro experience got picked in the lottery (and he's more expensive to boot). Nothing Bogdan has done this year with the Kings would deter any of the other teams from betting on the 19/20 year old upside player instead.
 
Um... no.

When's the last time a 25 year old Euro with years of pro experience got picked in the lottery (and he's more expensive to boot). Nothing Bogdan has done this year with the Kings would deter any of the other teams from betting on the 19/20 year old upside player instead.
He wouldn't be more expensive if he was available in the upcoming draft. Vlade was able to pay more because of the time that had elapsed since he was actually picked the first time. That time was one of the reasons he waited till this year to come over.

Where he would picked is a different story.
 
I don't know if I'd use the word "greedy", but yes, I'm explicitly asking for value back. To me, a mid-20s (or even low-20s) pick is not enough value back for me to pull the trigger right now. And the only other asset that CLE has that both works for us and that they might give away to acquire a veteran player to solidify their playoff chances is that BRK pick. It's true that there's kind of a big gap in value between their own pick and the BRK pick, but that's the way it goes. They don't have something in between in value to compromise on, which is why I suggested protections on the BRK pick, because even though I was talking about playing hardball, even *I* didn't think they would give it to us outright. And while I asked for top-2 protected, I'd probably be willing to negotiate that to top-4 or something. A decent chance (hopefully dial it in at >60%) at a good-but-not-transcendent pick with a fallback of a meh pick? Sure, I can probably live with that.
The extra value back is Frye’s expiring contract which we can pair with Vince’s contract to take on one more contract with an asset tied to it: Portland’s 1st with Turner, Winslow with James Johnson, Stanley Johnson with Jon Leuer
 
The extra value back is Frye’s expiring contract which we can pair with Vince’s contract to take on one more contract with an asset tied to it: Portland’s 1st with Turner, Winslow with James Johnson, Stanley Johnson with Jon Leuer
Plus the "Shumpert+Frye+ Cle 2018 pick for Hill+Richardson."

So we turn Hill, Richardson.Vince into Shumpert,Turner , clev 1st,Port 1st

Then packge the two 1st round, and our 2nd rounder to get us another Top 5 pick

PG Fox,Mason, shumpert
SG Buddy,Bogie,temple
SF Turner,Jackson
Pf Zbo,Wcs,Skal,Giles
C Kosta, Papa
Plus two top 5 picks!!!

If Temple /Kosta/Shumpert does not opt in 28 mil for FA

Pull the trigger Vlade!


O I forgot we are the Kings, Nobody wants our crap players at a trade deadline
Well it was nice to Dream!!
 
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I'd actually love to try and get Thompson and the Cavs pick for Hill and try something along those lines. People like to clown on him, but he's honestly just a really quality player who actually still fits our timeline decently well (still just 26). I like the fit with WCS as what he's best at is what WCS struggles with. And I trust the WCS jumper enough to where I wouldn't hate the spacing with them (as WCS is often running at the high post anyway).

But we'd get a hard-nosed quality rebounder with a history of providing good rim protection and doing a lot of things that makes a team better. Cavs stupidly haven't realized that their defensive decline pretty much coincides with phasing TT out of their main core of players. This would be a great spot to try and pick up a quality player that we can add to the core while opening up a bunch of playing time for our best players in the back-court.
 
The extra value back is Frye’s expiring contract which we can pair with Vince’s contract to take on one more contract with an asset tied to it: Portland’s 1st with Turner, Winslow with James Johnson, Stanley Johnson with Jon Leuer
Unless it's a 3-team deal, we wouldn't be able to flip Frye before the deadline.
 

Capt. Factorial

trifolium contra tempestatem subrigere certum est
Staff member
When's the last time a 25 year old Euro with years of pro experience got picked in the lottery
Well, probably never. But since international players, if they do not enter the draft early, are automatically eligible for the draft at age 22, every 23+ year old Euro has either already been drafted, or they are a free agent. There can't be a 25-year old Euro in the draft under the current rules, and I have no idea how long ago you'd have to look to find different rules that allowed it.
 
We are not, and should not act, desperate to get rid of Hill. Those of you who are willing to give away the store to get rid of him need to calm down.
If we can turn him into a decent pick in 2019 without sacrificing our youth movement, then I'm good with it. We don't need more vets to temp Joerger and steal playing time.
Next year our rookies will be Giles, a top 5 lottery pick, and a 2nd rounder. We don't need another rookie on top of that.
But we'll need some fresh blood for the following season.
Bogdan is no rookie. Should not even mentioned as a ROY candidate.. Maybe, it's first year in the NBA, but the guy has been playing pro ball for years.
 
Bogdan is no rookie. Should not even mentioned as a ROY candidate.. Maybe, it's first year in the NBA, but the guy has been playing pro ball for years.
You're making up your own rules. By NBA standards, he's a rookie. There's really no argument against.

A 4-yr college player is more NBA ready than a kid straight from high school or a 1 and done player. But if they enter the NBA at the same time, they're still both considered rookies. Fact.
 
Well, probably never. But since international players, if they do not enter the draft early, are automatically eligible for the draft at age 22, every 23+ year old Euro has either already been drafted, or they are a free agent. There can't be a 25-year old Euro in the draft under the current rules, and I have no idea how long ago you'd have to look to find different rules that allowed it.
Technicalities aren't the issue. He's twisted the point. Regardless of draft rules -- based upon what Bogie has shown to this point in time -- he'd likely be a top 10 pick if he was available in the upcoming draft.
 
Bogdan is no rookie. Should not even mentioned as a ROY candidate.. Maybe, it's first year in the NBA, but the guy has been playing pro ball for years.
Yeah, it's almost like we need a special category for guys like that (who are rookies, but have lots of pro experience). Bogie is not a rookie (as far as I'm concerned), nor a sophmore, nor a veteran. But you can't leave him out of the conversation just because you don't hav a convenient category that fits him better than rookie. How about "1st year rookie" and "1st year pro," with the word "rookie" reserved for those coming directly from college to the NBA?
 
Pisses me off that there is a camp here that wants to pour cold water on Bogi - wtf is that all about? You gamble on him coming over and being productive when you do the Chriss trade ... and you hit gin - he's your best player and he's 25 - and he's enthusiastic and he's got leadership qualities and he's tough.

And people want to spin him off in a deal for next year's 6th pick as if it is some kind of no-brainer?

Hell nah.
 

hrdboild

Hall of Famer
Bogdanovic should be pretty much untouchable just for team/fan morale. If you do too much asset swapping it starts to look like you're on a treadmill to nowhere *cough* Oakland A's *cough*. Also we should stop talking about getting that Brooklyn pick from Cleveland. That's not happening. Maybe if we had a DeAndre Jordan or a Kemba Walker to trade we could discuss it but those teams probably aren't thrilled about trading away one of their best players either. If you want to get a lottery pick you always have to trade something you don't really want to trade.

Shumpert, Frye, and a late 20s pick is a bunch of garbage as far as I'm concerned. I want no part of any of that. That a contending team is actually interested in George Hill should probably tell you something about his value around the league. This is not a guy we should just give away, and certainly not if we have to take back bad contracts in the process. They're actually talking about a George Hill for Reggie Jackson, Boban Marjonovic, and Stanley Johnson swap now at Detroitbadboys.com and while no one there is obviously thrilled about it (oh boy do they want Kemba Walker!) it's also not an immediate no from their perspective. We'd have to throw in another vet to make salaries match (Kosta? Garrett?). The difference with that trade is that it at least brings back a young player we can use right away.