Tankathon in effect? Joerger says 2 vets will rest each game (split)

#6
I mean, I'm expecting what happened last year. Maybe it started this game. Wouldn't be surprised to see them alternate sitting vets. (Koufos on Wed and Randolph back in maybe?)
I'm not sure we start the youth movement right now, but I hope so. There's so many horrible teams this year. When it comes down to the last 20 games of the season, I would not be surprised at all if the bottom 10 teams started blatantly tanking.
 
#7
I'm not sure we start the youth movement right now, but I hope so. There's so many horrible teams this year. When it comes down to the last 20 games of the season, I would not be surprised at all if the bottom 10 teams started blatantly tanking.
We have confirmation now. Joerger said he's going to sit two vets every night starting now, probably one perimeter player and one big. Tonight it would've been Carter and Zbo. Not exactly the full youth movement, but it's what happened last year except a month earlier.

Last year ended with us winning meaningless games while other teams tanked, but whatever.
 

kingsboi

Hall of Famer
#8
We have confirmation now. Joerger said he's going to sit two vets every night starting now, probably one perimeter player and one big. Tonight it would've been Carter and Zbo. Not exactly the full youth movement, but it's what happened last year except a month earlier.

Last year ended with us winning meaningless games while other teams tanked, but whatever.
I'm cool with this approach. You won't have a happy locker room if you sit all the vets so its either trade one or two of them or do what Joerger has proposed. Keep seeing the youth start the game and get at least 30 minutes and let the losses pile up!
 

VF21

Super Moderator Emeritus
SME
#9
I'm glad to see Joerger come right out and say what he intends to do the rest of the season re: playing the vets. I've said all along I didn't just want the kids tossed out there and forced to sink or swim. At this point in the season, however, I have no problem with putting the game in their hands and letting them learn how it feels to lose (and hopefully win) without looking like they don't belong out there.

If Skal can continue to make forward strides, I look forward to seeing more of him and less (much less) of Z-Bo. Carter I have no problem with whatsoever, and I think he'll be back in Toronto by the end of the year if not sooner. We need to keep Hill at least until we have Mason back. Temple I think is a good veteran presence, plus he does play defense. I wish Jackson would show more of what we hoped to see. Koufos isn't a problem for me, either.

I don't even object too strongly to using the T word at this point. It's just semantics. We aren't tossing the kids to the wolves, but we are putting the focus on them with both eyes looking towards the future.

It's a good time to be a Kings fan - and I think it might be getting better real soon.
 
#11
Despite all the complaining about not playing the young guys enough, I think this was the plan all along. Build the young guys up, let them get experience without being overwhelmed, and then at some point turn it over to them. Apparently "some point" has arrived. I don't know if it was just strictly a timetable "we will give them the keys after the halfway point" or if it was progress based. I kind of hope it was progress based and that the coaching staff has seen enough progress to feel comfortable turning it over to them. Either way, it looks like they had a plan and stuck to it, which is a good thing. I think Bogs, Willie, for the most part Buddy, and now Fox are showing enough consistency to provide stable play for the coaching staff to feel more comfortable with playing them the majority of the minutes and to allow Skal, Jackson, and Malachi to continue their development playing with them instead of the vets all the time. Maybe even Papa will get more minutes. Fox seems to have made a leap in his development since the injury, maybe sitting out and watching did help him with the mental part. I am also eagerly looking forward to Mason coming back, he showed a lot of promise early, regressed a bit, but hopefully the time sitting out will help him like it did Fox. I still think there will be times when a veteran presence, say a Temple, a Z-B0, or even the much maligned Hill, may be needed on the floor to settle things down and provide some stability, but for the most part it will be up to these guys to work it out.
 
#12
Despite all the complaining about not playing the young guys enough, I think this was the plan all along. Build the young guys up, let them get experience without being overwhelmed, and then at some point turn it over to them. Apparently "some point" has arrived. I don't know if it was just strictly a timetable "we will give them the keys after the halfway point" or if it was progress based. I kind of hope it was progress based and that the coaching staff has seen enough progress to feel comfortable turning it over to them. Either way, it looks like they had a plan and stuck to it, which is a good thing. I think Bogs, Willie, for the most part Buddy, and now Fox are showing enough consistency to provide stable play for the coaching staff to feel more comfortable with playing them the majority of the minutes and to allow Skal, Jackson, and Malachi to continue their development playing with them instead of the vets all the time. Maybe even Papa will get more minutes. Fox seems to have made a leap in his development since the injury, maybe sitting out and watching did help him with the mental part. I am also eagerly looking forward to Mason coming back, he showed a lot of promise early, regressed a bit, but hopefully the time sitting out will help him like it did Fox. I still think there will be times when a veteran presence, say a Temple, a Z-B0, or even the much maligned Hill, may be needed on the floor to settle things down and provide some stability, but for the most part it will be up to these guys to work it out.
I mostly agree and like the thoughts effort you put in your posts, but it will be so much easier to read those posts if they are not presented as "walls of text".
"Enter" is your friend.
 
#15
This season has developed just about like I thought it would. Fox has developed to the point where he is not overwhelmed going up against Westbrook. Bogie just fits right in on a night when his shot was not falling. Willie and Skal are long and lean and run the floor well. Each has their game developing in good ways. Mason should come back a new man after some time to heal and watch the game. Buddy is working hard and his stroke looks good. Justin, Malachi and Papa will get some minutes and I expect a player will emerge from that trio.

Meanwhile Giles sits on the bench soaking it all in. Somewhere on a court is the player the Kings pick this year:) I expect big things from these two.

The Vets seem pretty cool with this so far. They will see the floor but most likely in limited roles as needed. Hopefully those that want it are moved for picks or players 25 or younger with upside. I like the idea of Vince hanging it up in Toronto if he wishes. IMO Hill would look good in OKC backing up Westbrook and playing some minutes along side him. I am also OK with Hill playing our his deal in Sacto. Same deal with ZBO. Just a FYI when the Kings were struggling to score last night if ZBO was inserted he may have turned the tide of the game. Joerger knows it is time to roll with the young players and stuck with the Big rotation of Willie, Skal and Kosta. And that brings us to the Kings soon to be free agents Kosta and Garrett. Both have a player option in 2018/2019 for about 8 million each. I could see either or both being traded. Both are good guys and I could also see them staying with the team if they want.

There are going to be losses and some will be ugly as these young fellas learn by doing. There will also be success. You may have to search for it though.
 
#16
As a fan I'm excited to hear this from Dave, and it makes me more inclined, not less, to go to the games.

We're talking about a team here that gave up 72 in a half. One loss away from worst record in the NBA. It is not like it is gonna get worse.

Even if we miraculously lose-out playing the youth and have a 15 win season I'm fine with it. But I won't be surprised if our winning percentage stays steady where it is now. We'll see.

Wait till next year!

PS: Just checked and we're only 9 games out of the 8th seed lol... that sure happened fast - last time I looked at standings we were a few games out of 8th and a few games out of last.
 
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#17
OMG it's like there's some kind of method to all this madness. Looking forward to the haters latest take. I guess now is when we should make our playoff push?
 
#19
OMG it's like there's some kind of method to all this madness. Looking forward to the haters latest take. I guess now is when we should make our playoff push?
I guess you could call me a "hater" but this decision gets a big thumbs up from me. Team is much more exciting to watch with the young guys. They seem to perform just as well without the veterans playing a bunch of minutes and they get their development accelerated as well.

When Joerger changes the offense and starts running a system that works for the kids, I'll stop my "hating" completely. I was happy with what I saw for the most part (other than the 3rd quarter) yesterday but I'm still pulling my hair out anytime I see Koufos at the high post with the ball in his hands, waiting to hand the ball off to someone with the shot clock dwindling down. It's such a pointless, inefficient way to run an offense and I don't understand what the thought process was behind using Koufos to scan the court and attempt to drop dimes to cutters.

I'm not the only one either. I read an article on ESPN the other day about what fantasy players to pick up and even the writer there said that Fox could be a really good fantasy pick up but the offensive system needs to change before he can put numbers up on the board. It's not just grumbling around here. It's getting some national attention to those who are paying attention.
 
#20
I guess you could call me a "hater" but this decision gets a big thumbs up from me. Team is much more exciting to watch with the young guys. They seem to perform just as well without the veterans playing a bunch of minutes and they get their development accelerated as well.

When Joerger changes the offense and starts running a system that works for the kids, I'll stop my "hating" completely. I was happy with what I saw for the most part (other than the 3rd quarter) yesterday but I'm still pulling my hair out anytime I see Koufos at the high post with the ball in his hands, waiting to hand the ball off to someone with the shot clock dwindling down. It's such a pointless, inefficient way to run an offense and I don't understand what the thought process was behind using Koufos to scan the court and attempt to drop dimes to cutters.

I'm not the only one either. I read an article on ESPN the other day about what fantasy players to pick up and even the writer there said that Fox could be a really good fantasy pick up but the offensive system needs to change before he can put numbers up on the board. It's not just grumbling around here. It's getting some national attention to those who are paying attention.
To me, what Joerger was doing was showing faith in his own process and system and that he was going to develop the kids to be well rounded complete players and wasn't going to be the coach that basically doesn't coach and hopes that one or two of them breaks out on their own and keeps the coach in his job for an extra season or two. Joerger was saying in effect, this is my show and this is how it's going to operate. It's just my belief that letting high draft picks basically coach themselves and run their own show doesn't work unless they are MJ or Lebron level guys. And even those guys had huge growing pains.
 
#21
Atalanta and Orlando are both trying to shop their vets supposedly.

Michael Scotto: Atlanta Hawks are seeking a high second-round draft pick in exchange for either Marco Belinelli or Ersan Ilyasova, league sources told

http://hoopshype.com/rumor/1156080


Rival
executives expect Jeff Weltman, Orlando’s new team president, to aggressively hunt for new homes for the likes of Evan Fournier, Elfrid Payton and Mario Hezonja, given that Nikola Vucevic’s broken finger is likely to preclude dealing the center.


http://hoopshype.com/rumor/1156771/


So the tank is on. Question is should we take whatever we can get asap for our vets, or hold on for value. Interesting consideration, may not be able to get anything if we are not aggressive but whatever meager returns we could get by waiting may not be there later.

I say sell now if we can, get something in the hand rather than being cheap & trying to hold on for value.
 
#23
I'm glad to see Joerger come right out and say what he intends to do the rest of the season re: playing the vets.
I think it was a very shrewd move by Joeger and Vlade to come out and tell the public, because it preserves the Vets trade value.

Basically, saying to interested buyers, "The Vets are still good, but we decided to sit them for the youth...... so, what's your best offer."

I'm sure behind the scenes, they probably told the Vets that they will try to trade them to a better situation and try to get something in return for them.
 
#25
I think it was a very shrewd move by Joeger and Vlade to come out and tell the public, because it preserves the Vets trade value.

Basically, saying to interested buyers, "The Vets are still good, but we decided to sit them for the youth...... so, what's your best offer."

I'm sure behind the scenes, they probably told the Vets that they will try to trade them to a better situation and try to get something in return for them.
It also makes a little more sense to have been playing your vets heavier minutes early on if this was your plan all along. Neat.
 
#26
Atalanta and Orlando are both trying to shop their vets supposedly.

Michael Scotto: Atlanta Hawks are seeking a high second-round draft pick in exchange for either Marco Belinelli or Ersan Ilyasova, league sources told

http://hoopshype.com/rumor/1156080

Rival
executives expect Jeff Weltman, Orlando’s new team president, to aggressively hunt for new homes for the likes of Evan Fournier, Elfrid Payton and Mario Hezonja, given that Nikola Vucevic’s broken finger is likely to preclude dealing the center.

http://hoopshype.com/rumor/1156771/


So the tank is on. Question is should we take whatever we can get asap for our vets, or hold on for value. Interesting consideration, may not be able to get anything if we are not aggressive but whatever meager returns we could get by waiting may not be there later.

I say sell now if we can, get something in the hand rather than being cheap & trying to hold on for value.
I agree. We could actually get something decent for Randolph, so that's an easy one. Hill to New York might need a cash supplement or a protected 2nd round pick.

Do we trade anyone else though? I'm fine if it's just those two. Actually, I'm fine with just trading Hill... but Randolph has value right now and it will only go down.
 
#27
Elfrid actually misses free throws and shots due to his hair. Mario is still learning to dribble. Evan is actually a decent player.

However most importantly, because Pete D'Alessandro is assistant GM for Orlando. :eek:
Elfrid is one of the guys that has been a huge curiosity and I have often times wondered about the hair (Magic game was the one I had courtside seats to vs. Blazers last year).

Also - they've had poor coaching consistency and team vision developing these guys - which is one of those things that sure question Joerger, but I think we're all better off for keeping him in place and letting him execute his plan. He clearly has one that is long term goal driven rather than quick results, and I can understand why some don't like it.
 
#28
I agree. We could actually get something decent for Randolph, so that's an easy one. Hill to New York might need a cash supplement or a protected 2nd round pick.

Do we trade anyone else though? I'm fine if it's just those two. Actually, I'm fine with just trading Hill... but Randolph has value right now and it will only go down.
In my opinion Randolph & Hill make too much loot to be positive value contracts, but that doesn't mean they are untradeable, just means you have to take bad salary back which is fine if we somehow got a pick or prospect. Just have to be careful it doesn't cripple us next year when we have no pick. So something could be there, just have to find enough value in it.

I think Kosta could return a second or long shot prospect with a salary filler in return.

Temple is overpaid too, so the team seeking him would want to offload some salary but he'd really have to fit a need. Like the above does it justify the possible second round pick or prospect we can get. But I wouldn't mind holding on to Temple either.

Carter you've got to get his permission to move I think, can't disrespect a player with his legacy.

But if we can somehow get a couple of nickles and dimes, even waive some of the return, maybe one of those payoff long term. That's why I say sell now, going to be hard to trade as is, get anything you can.
 
#29
Elfrid is one of the guys that has been a huge curiosity and I have often times wondered about the hair (Magic game was the one I had courtside seats to vs. Blazers last year).

Also - they've had poor coaching consistency and team vision developing these guys - which is one of those things that sure question Joerger, but I think we're all better off for keeping him in place and letting him execute his plan. He clearly has one that is long term goal driven rather than quick results, and I can understand why some don't like it.
I present exhibit A of Elfrid's hair being an issue. https://streamable.com/o7xt2

I actually thought when they got Vogel in as coach they might turn it around, and they still might. They started this season 6-1 or something similar. They have made some poor trades over the last few seasons as well so it may take some time. The recently fired front office staff even somehow let a whiteboard with various nba players names, some not on the Magic, get leaked to the media. Next to all the names were plans and machinations that should not be seen by anyone outside the front office. Just a mess.