[Game] Kings @ Suns - Monday, Oct. 23 - 7 PT

Good thing we have that steady vet presence to help the kids along

The current starting lineup is trash. They just don't mesh well. Coach needs to tweak it.

And it sure was nice to see the Kings continue the tradition of allowing unheralded scrubs to abuse them. Mike freaking James?? Effing ridiculous. That guy hit almost anything he decided to toss at the basket tonight. He should have been the goat that lost the game when he got embarrassed by FOX on the strip steal. He got bailed out by the non-call.

Still, Mike freaking James?? Dude will be out of the league in a few years if not sooner.

Well at least we know Fox is the truth and WCS, Skal, and Bogdan are the real deal. Getting one of the SF in this draft to pair with our backcourt will be huge.

Bog was open, but he didn't score a single point in the second half. Temple had the hot hand and it made sense.
I am not nearly as high on Bogdan as a lot of you are. I think he will be an ok 6-7 option on a good team. Nothing more. Kings played one of the Top 3 worst teams tonite. Bogdan is not going to get all those looks against decent teams. Skal scored 28 against the Suns last year.

The only real go to right now is Fox. He should be getting 30 plus minutes and running this offense.

I like Fox, But both Ullis and James were doing whatever they wanted against Fox all night long. All Night Long.

Not to mention Bogdan has a history of making game winning shots

uhm so... Bogdan starts his 1st game 5-6 proceeds to go 0-9. It's definitely safe to say that the callings of Bogdanovic being the "best King" were premature.

I don't know where the myth of Fox being a good defender comes from. James and Ulis were dominating him all game. Ulis is 5'9 160lbs... Fox had super quick end to end speed, but his lateral quickness looks just average.

It's like me calling WCS a good rebounder. He looks like he could/should be, but he's not. Same with Fox. Fox flashes defensive potential, but through the first 4 games, he's been horrible. Not to mention 5'8 JJ Barrea man handled him.

At least there was this..

Honestly...not to beat a dead horse, but I think Dave iced him pretty good not putting him in until 3 minute marker I wanna say in 3rd. Can't blame everything on Dave but damn sure can tonight with that rotation

I think the brightest King player on this team is Skal. He's the guy who we need to feature on this offense. Give him easy looks. PnRs with him leading to the basket. PnPs with open jumpers. Easy catch and shoot scenarios.

He's the real star on this team imo. He's too young and inexperienced to put it all together right now, but he looks freaking good. He's noticeably improved a lot on his passing and defense.

I'm honestly starting to get a bit annoyed by you.

First, it was Bogdan's first ever NBA game, and he had a great first half. Shooting slumps happen to the best, so calm down. Fox has played three games so far, and he still has some weaknesses. Wow, what a shocker.

There is a reason why the are called rookies.

Dude he's 19 years old. Name a 19 year old who came into the league being a lockdown defender? The most important thing is it's clear that he cares about defense and hustles/pressures the ball. There is also no such thing as a lockdown defender at the PG position with the way the game is called. Beverley is probably the closest but the elite PG's are still gonna have their way with him. Fox's quickness and effort are a great asset to for a coach in a team defensive scheme.

It's Bogdan's 1st game, but people were already calling him the best player on this roster and saying he should start over Hield. Both are extremely premature...because of what you just said, it his "first ever NBA game" and he didn't even play all that good in it either.

I've seen a ton of Kings fans and media calling Fox a great defender when he's been far from that. That gets annoying for me too. People need to tell it like how it is... Bogdanovic is NOT our best player. Fox has been one of our worst defenders.

It's only 3 games and premature to write anyone off or hop onto anyone's wagon. I like watching games without my tinned purple colored glasses on.

Trust me, I lost my purple colored glasses 10 years ago

But if you want to criticize, you should start with Buddy or WCS, who I don't have much confidence in to become anything better than solid bench players

He was making plays for other guys and kept the ball moving leading to good shots. Also the shots he missed are shots he can hit regularly. It looked like he was a little tired from the odd rotation of being a bench player but having to stay in to close game. Joerger saw that and subbed in Hill for him. I think he did really well for his first NBA game.

206fan, Fox is far from our worst defender. He's played very solid defense...a lot of the time. Mike James did a number on him until about halfway through the 4th quarter. Then Fox slowed him down a ton until giving up that final bucket. I'm not sure what you saw against Barea but Fox nearly had him on lock down all game. I don't even think Barea scored in double digits. Defense takes learning your opponents moves and being able to anticipate them. That's not easy the first go round for any player. Joerger wouldn't keep Fox out there for the defensive sets if he was one of our worst defenders.

Fox has actually been one of the best ON BALL defenders on the team. What are you looking at bruh?

I'm not really annoyed by Fox's defense. I'm more annoyed by the amount of people (including media guys) calling him a great defender when it's untrue. There was 1 play where Grant praises Fox for being so quick on defense..then he immediately gets lit up by James, and Grant immediately retracts by saying Fox should do better on that play. I think Fox will eventually be a good defender.

I already knew the Kings would be a lotto team competing for a top 5 pick.. but here I am....upset at this loss. If you look in the other thread, I predicted a Kings loss 105-109. I expect nothing..yet I'm still disappointed. Maybe it's the losing taking a toll on me? Kings are so bad.

Kings were down 22 in the first quarter, absolutely atrocious line up he threw out there with slow-bo playing, Hill & Trill & Hield all contributing nothing and lack of energy. Fox enters the game and the Kings go on a run, go figure. Frustrating game to watch in general. For all the steals the Kings had, they should of won this game. Temple got hot but he shouldn't of taken the last shot there, would of liked to see Fox make a play. You live & you learn. One last thing, Bogs needs to start, he makes plays out there, his shots don't always drop but he had at least three steals tonight from what I recall.

aka the "money crew"

Fox isn't a good defender? Are we watching the same games? He's quick as hell, not perfect by any means, but he can bother a lot of opponents with his quickness and he has a knack for stripping a big blindsided at least once a game.

I think it's difficult to judge Fox's defense by now. Let's face it: both Ulis and James are more experienced and have a good grip of how to run the pick&roll. Both didn't break down Fox 1vs1 a lot. They made good use of screens. That's where team defense, communication and the experience how to get around or over screens quickly kicks in.
From what I have seen Fox has the footspeed and the needed tenaciousness to become a solid defender. He has active hands, isn't afraid to go in between the trees to rebound and is vocal enough to provide the needed communication. Usually with young guards that quick you see a lot more ball pressure (Schröder used to guard people closely over the whole court, constantly putting pressure on the ball), but that's maybe because Joerger emphasizes discipline and team defensive schemes over anything else.
Fox right now looks like the least of our worries. He already shows NBA level skills in some areas and he doesn't make too many mistakes. At the age of 19 this is pretty much all you can ask for this early in the season.
Is he a future star? Man that's a question you can't answer objectively right now. But fans usually aren't objective. So I get the hype.

A guy who really impresses me is Justin Jackson. I don't know why some are that critical when it comes to him. His shot isn't falling right now, but everything else about him just screams "rock solid wing role player". Long, good body, decent quickness, good form on his shot, ok on D as a rookie, floater game, good enough handle to attack a closeout. What I like most is that he just plays smoothly within the offense. He already moves off the ball like a vet and he never takes bad shots. I wanted a full sized wing like that for years. Finally the Kings caught up to the 2017 NBA and drafted one. Once he grows into his body, we may finally be able to play lineups similar to the Blazers or Warriors, that rely mainly on speed, maximum spacing and shooting.

Bogdan looks a little bit like a mixed bag to me. He just seems oddly slow, but he moves under control and has his head up. But there have been many guys able to carve out a good niche in the league, even though they weren't the best athletes.

Buddy just tries way too hard right now. Dude is a black hole, desperately trying to make plays. I don't like his step back 3's and forced layups one bit. Just run the offense dude.

Still don't understand, what Joerger is trying to do. I think the best play of the night, was the 4out play with Skal in the corner and Hill+Willie running the pick&roll on top, resulting in an And1 layup by Willie. It's just so much easier for our guards to find the bigs, when the floor is spaced like that. Not a fan at all of those high post sets and dribble handoffs. Floor is shrunk, spacing is terrible and our guards aren't good enough and experienced enough to operate in tight space. Willie never gets the ball on his rolls and layups are always heavily contested. Willies jumpshot looks much improved, but rarely is he used in a pick&pop. Skal seems to be money in catch and shoot situations, seems to have enough range for a corner 3, but is used mainly as a postup option.
I know Joerger is a fine coach, but I don't understand that.


In the offseason I expressed my fear, that the Zbo signing would result in a playstyle, that does our young bigs no good. Still early in the season, but so far the team has done nothing to soothe my fear. Right now we are playing at a very slow pace (29th PACE in the league). Seems odd for a young, athletic team with lots of guard talent. Right now I can't think off one successful fastbreak basket for Willie, who is a spectecular rim runner.

My best guess is that Joerger wants to teach the youngsters to play in the halfcourt first and wants to minimize mistakes by slowing down the pace.

Fox has done a respectable job on one on one defense but let's face it, he is a twig out there and it's easy to body him up and create space. With experience and some time in the weight room, he will be just fine.

We are 29th pace in the league with the fastest player in the league and team filled with youth. Figure it out Joerger, that crap doesn't add up.

Did this in Memphis, it's just his comfort zone because he can understand what's going on. Look at how good Memphis is playing now that they have upped the pace.

Our Offense worries me greatly

No, it doesn't. A wide open shot for a good shooter is always a higher percentage shot than a contested shot on the move.

Fox played 30 minutes. Hill played 25. It wasn't just FOX they did whatever they wanted against. But FOX did make the steal on James that probably should have resulted in the W had the foul been called on Booker. While he certainly has a lot to learn about playing NBA defense, I like guys that step up in the biggest moments. He made that steal and made the game tying runner.

I would put Frank Mason III on all players in the 5' 9" range. Just tell Frank all he has to do is shut them down.

Willie "is" a good defender, so is Fox.