[Game] Kings v. Rockets - Wednesday, Oct. 18 - 7 PT

#61
so we should all jump for joy because he shot 43% for 30 games? That's enough of a sample for you?

I'm not having a doom and gloom attitude, I am simply pointing out what I've seen from him so far.

I'm not basing his shooting strictly on preseason, I am holding out hope that he isn't a practice shooter like McLemore or Jimmer.

I don't deny that his work ethic is exceptional, but maybe he overdoes it and when it comes to playing in the game, it negates his effectiveness?

Look, I want him to succeed just like any Kings fan does, I just need to see more than a 30 game sample out of him to make further evaluations.
I envisioned stardom for Buddy before he was drafted, before he was traded to us. So the 30-game sample size did not exactly have me jumping for joy. It was more of a verification of the type of player I thought he could be. Buddy has done nothing to invite comparison to Ben or Jimmer. Ben has made 35% of his 3s in his career and career high of 38%. Ben is also 53% TS in his career. Buddy shot 60% TS in his 30 game with us. Dramatic difference. To imply Buddy will follow in their footsteps is an assertion without merit. Your analysis, to the extent you have offered any, does not support Buddy will be next in a line of busts, aka, "fall flat on his face."

I have had this discussion before with regards to Buddy and other guards. With guards what you want to look for is the quality of shots. Are they getting clean looks? Is their head seemingly screwed on straight when they launch (i.e. above average confidence)? What is their array of arsenal? What is their counter when the defense takes away their preferred move? These variables are more important than a 3-10 shooting night. These misses are going to happen. But when you have the skill set that enables you to get quality looks on a consistent basis, shots eventually are going to go in at a plus rate.

In other words, it is a rookie mistake as a fan to look exclusively at shooting % over the short duration, like say a 4 game summer league or 5-game preseason performance. When Buddy is cold for a quarter or half or game I am not remotely worried. Last year Buddy basically won us a game on the road against the Clippers after being cold for at least one half. Unlike Jimmer who at 6'2" and bulky frame struggled to get clean looks at the hoop and when he did struggled with his confidence, Buddy is far more active off the ball with his length and activity to get more quality looks with his feet under him. He is also able to get into the teeth of the defense and launch with touch rather than get swallowed whole.

Jimmer failed because his subpar size and athleticism was not overcome by extraordinary confidence when he was able to get free for an open look. Buddy doesn't run into this narrow margin for error because he's bigger and more active. Ben vs Buddy is no contest either. Buddy has far better instincts for the game, he's a better student of the game. He has a left hand when drives. He shoots a floater when the lane is closed. He also shoots more of a set shot from deep than a jump shot (like Ben), which is more typical of the best long range bombers. There is more of compact motion and less room for error with this type of release.

These are all variables that go into portending success of lack thereof not just "bad training camp = bricklayer who falls on his face". I could go on and on but I will end it here and we have a season opener to look forward to :)
 
#62
Look, I'm never going to say that I hope we lose. But beating the Rockets will cause problems regardless of who plays and who doesn't play. It'll create unreasonable expectations of what this team can/should do this season, and that will lead to frustration when we start losing 3, 4 and 5 games in a row (which we will do on a regular basis). I just want us to be competitive. Play hard and smart. Show hope for the future. Watch the youngsters getting better before our eyes. Be within 10 points at the end of every 3rd quarter to give our guys a chance. Is that too much to ask for?
 
#64
By the way, I hate Harden. I mean hate, hate, hate. Loser, quitter, ball-hogger, me-first player. And I can't stand the beard; I'd like to strap him to a chair and cut it off just with blunt scissors. Without shaving cream.:)
I agree with you on the beard, shave it already, but I saw this guy up close and had a new appreciation for his game. He makes opponents look silly and I respect someone at the top of their craft. With the rule changes Harden is less likely to get bailed out by the refs which may reduce the annoyance level. They are not going to gift him free throws anymore. When he tries to bait the defender with his up-and-under, it will not be rewarded. At least in theory and by the new rule book. Any attempt to lean into the defender while you enter into your shooting motion is an offensive foul. This may not make Harden "likable" to fans, but perhaps "less unwatchable".
 
#65
Zbo out....Skal needs to not get torched by Ryan Anderson
There's no reason why we should get torched by Ryan Anderson..but we always do. I'd be pleasantly surprised if Skal wasn't a negative on defense. I just hope he doesn't get posted up by Anderson.......
 
#66
I’m excited about tonight’s game and the season, been looking forward to tonight for a while. I’m looking forward to seeing the players grow and develop into a team. It will be a long process, anyone who thinks this bunch is going to come out of the gate looking like any kind of a competitive team is in for a rude awakening. They looked terrible in the preseason and I won’t even talk about the SL. But what do you expect? A bunch of rookies, inexperienced players with a few new veterans thrown in the mix. So far, they look and play like I expected, like they have never played together and half of them like they have never been on an NBA court.

I have not given up on any of them, not after SL, not after a compressed training camp and preseason. I have not thrown in the towel on anyone, I don’t think the writing is on the wall for anyone, I am not disappointed in anyone (on the team that is). This process will be a season long process and there will not be a linear progression, it will be a sawtooth. Lots of ups and downs, lots of downs early and even some disappointing downs late. Lots of opportunities for personal growth, and it will be time consuming.

I have only been following the Kings and this site for the last 3 seasons (counting this one) and only in the last couple of months was I able to join (thanks again VF21 for getting that straightened out). Maybe I just don’t have that Kangz mentality, yet, but I don’t understand all of the negativity before this season has even begun. Previous seasons I understand, but there should be no great expectations to the start of this year (but apparently there are), in fact I’m not sure how much I will check in especially during the first half of the season because it’s going to get rough and I really get tired of unrealistic expectations and negativity. But I do think this team has a chance to eventually become something special. I doubt it has all the parts, yet, but I think it is on its way (but it won’t be this year, this is a growth and development year).
 
#67
Look, I'm never going to say that I hope we lose. But beating the Rockets will cause problems regardless of who plays and who doesn't play. It'll create unreasonable expectations of what this team can/should do this season, and that will lead to frustration when we start losing 3, 4 and 5 games in a row (which we will do on a regular basis). I just want us to be competitive. Play hard and smart. Show hope for the future. Watch the youngsters getting better before our eyes. Be within 10 points at the end of every 3rd quarter to give our guys a chance. Is that too much to ask for?
Umm, is this the Twilight Zone? Losing is a problem? o_O On Game 1 of 82? Is this seriously the take you want to go with and proclaim on forum? Let's follow this line of thought: What we need to do is manage expectations, keep them low to not inflict undue frustration from the faithful. What matters is not inducing any emotional trauma on the fan base by surprising one of the best teams in the league then proceeding to go on a prolonged losing streak? It would be "better" to show the fan base we suck s0 everyone knows generally what to expect and are pleasantly surprised when we exceed lowered expectations. Do I have it about right?

OK now let me talk about competition. The goal is to win. The goal is ALWAYS to win . The best way to win in the future is to win in the present. Do you want to be a good tomorrow? Two months from now? Six months from now? Good, win today!!! Exceed expectations! Pull off the upset! Do something beyond which you thought capable! And whether you win or lose, participants should not give two cents about the emotional roller coaster they may not put fans on. That's not their responsibility. Their job is to compete to best of their ability. If you cannot win of course you want to be competitive but the only way you are "within 10 points at the end of every 3rd quarter to give our guys a chance" is to play with intention to win.

To imply in first game of the season that losing is a bad thing is ludicrous and must be called out for the ludicrousness of it.
 
#74
I envisioned stardom for Buddy before he was drafted, before he was traded to us. So the 30-game sample size did not exactly have me jumping for joy. It was more of a verification of the type of player I thought he could be. Buddy has done nothing to invite comparison to Ben or Jimmer. Ben has made 35% of his 3s in his career and career high of 38%. Ben is also 53% TS in his career. Buddy shot 60% TS in his 30 game with us. Dramatic difference. To imply Buddy will follow in their footsteps is an assertion without merit. Your analysis, to the extent you have offered any, does not support Buddy will be next in a line of busts, aka, "fall flat on his face."

I have had this discussion before with regards to Buddy and other guards. With guards what you want to look for is the quality of shots. Are they getting clean looks? Is their head seemingly screwed on straight when they launch (i.e. above average confidence)? What is their array of arsenal? What is their counter when the defense takes away their preferred move? These variables are more important than a 3-10 shooting night. These misses are going to happen. But when you have the skill set that enables you to get quality looks on a consistent basis, shots eventually are going to go in at a plus rate.

In other words, it is a rookie mistake as a fan to look exclusively at shooting % over the short duration, like say a 4 game summer league or 5-game preseason performance. When Buddy is cold for a quarter or half or game I am not remotely worried. Last year Buddy basically won us a game on the road against the Clippers after being cold for at least one half. Unlike Jimmer who at 6'2" and bulky frame struggled to get clean looks at the hoop and when he did struggled with his confidence, Buddy is far more active off the ball with his length and activity to get more quality looks with his feet under him. He is also able to get into the teeth of the defense and launch with touch rather than get swallowed whole.

Jimmer failed because his subpar size and athleticism was not overcome by extraordinary confidence when he was able to get free for an open look. Buddy doesn't run into this narrow margin for error because he's bigger and more active. Ben vs Buddy is no contest either. Buddy has far better instincts for the game, he's a better student of the game. He has a left hand when drives. He shoots a floater when the lane is closed. He also shoots more of a set shot from deep than a jump shot (like Ben), which is more typical of the best long range bombers. There is more of compact motion and less room for error with this type of release.

These are all variables that go into portending success of lack thereof not just "bad training camp = bricklayer who falls on his face". I could go on and on but I will end it here and we have a season opener to look forward to :)
Great post. Skill is very important when it comes to analyzing a player. I don't know exactly what you were responding to, but I agree with the gist of your post.
 

kingsboi

Hall of Famer
#75
I envisioned stardom for Buddy before he was drafted, before he was traded to us. So the 30-game sample size did not exactly have me jumping for joy. It was more of a verification of the type of player I thought he could be. Buddy has done nothing to invite comparison to Ben or Jimmer. Ben has made 35% of his 3s in his career and career high of 38%. Ben is also 53% TS in his career. Buddy shot 60% TS in his 30 game with us. Dramatic difference. To imply Buddy will follow in their footsteps is an assertion without merit. Your analysis, to the extent you have offered any, does not support Buddy will be next in a line of busts, aka, "fall flat on his face."

I have had this discussion before with regards to Buddy and other guards. With guards what you want to look for is the quality of shots. Are they getting clean looks? Is their head seemingly screwed on straight when they launch (i.e. above average confidence)? What is their array of arsenal? What is their counter when the defense takes away their preferred move? These variables are more important than a 3-10 shooting night. These misses are going to happen. But when you have the skill set that enables you to get quality looks on a consistent basis, shots eventually are going to go in at a plus rate.

In other words, it is a rookie mistake as a fan to look exclusively at shooting % over the short duration, like say a 4 game summer league or 5-game preseason performance. When Buddy is cold for a quarter or half or game I am not remotely worried. Last year Buddy basically won us a game on the road against the Clippers after being cold for at least one half. Unlike Jimmer who at 6'2" and bulky frame struggled to get clean looks at the hoop and when he did struggled with his confidence, Buddy is far more active off the ball with his length and activity to get more quality looks with his feet under him. He is also able to get into the teeth of the defense and launch with touch rather than get swallowed whole.

Jimmer failed because his subpar size and athleticism was not overcome by extraordinary confidence when he was able to get free for an open look. Buddy doesn't run into this narrow margin for error because he's bigger and more active. Ben vs Buddy is no contest either. Buddy has far better instincts for the game, he's a better student of the game. He has a left hand when drives. He shoots a floater when the lane is closed. He also shoots more of a set shot from deep than a jump shot (like Ben), which is more typical of the best long range bombers. There is more of compact motion and less room for error with this type of release.

These are all variables that go into portending success of lack thereof not just "bad training camp = bricklayer who falls on his face". I could go on and on but I will end it here and we have a season opener to look forward to :)
you really envisioned stardom before Buddy was drafted? boy, I sure would love to see a thread on the 2016 NBA draft to skim through and see what players you were praising.
 
#77
Look, I'm never going to say that I hope we lose. But beating the Rockets will cause problems regardless of who plays and who doesn't play. It'll create unreasonable expectations of what this team can/should do this season, and that will lead to frustration when we start losing 3, 4 and 5 games in a row (which we will do on a regular basis). I just want us to be competitive. Play hard and smart. Show hope for the future. Watch the youngsters getting better before our eyes. Be within 10 points at the end of every 3rd quarter to give our guys a chance. Is that too much to ask for?
Nonsense, I expect us to get whooped tonight, but if we won this one right off the bat against a quality opponent tonight, it would be good for everyone.
 
#83
As for George Hill... don’t come here to cash a check.. I thought you could have a good second chapter of your career here. Late teen ppg, first option stuff this year. I didn’t feel his presence in the preseason
 
#88
you really envisioned stardom before Buddy was drafted? boy, I sure would love to see a thread on the 2016 NBA draft to skim through and see what players you were praising.
It was not a far stretch or bold declaration to envision stardom for Buddy based on his play at OSU. He was a superior shot maker and changed ends so well. This is what stood out to me. The tools on this site are clunky. I don't know how to look up old posts. But if you know how you will see my glowing praise of said player pre-draft.