Jayson Tatum

The more I watch Tatum, the less I like him. The more I watch of Isaac, the more I like him. In fact, it's not that close. Tatum plays soft on the interior, he's not that active. Isaac is a tremendous defender. He's a terrific defensive rebounder. Isaac knows where to be on the court and can swarm guards. You don't get any of that from Tatum. Tatum has the length, allegedly, with his 6'11" wingspan, but I question that measurement perhaps in the Thomas Robinson-esque mold who was suppose to 6"10" then showed up to Kings camp 6'8" :eek:

Frankly anyone who is concluding Tatum over Isaac, I question your analytical prowess, which when a poll was taken was about 70% of the board. I encourage fans to watch the full games on YouTube to get full picture instead of highlight clips that can be misleading.

Isaac represents everything the Kings need and have been lacking. What's not to love about that?! And he is barely scratching the surface of who he can be as a scorer. With his agility and touch and length and constant activity, he has the potential to a 20 PPG 12 RPG 3 APG player in our league.

There's even an argument to be made that if Fox falls to #5 and the Kings have choice between Fox and Isaac, they could be better off drafting Isaac! :eek: Now I am not necessarily advocating this, but if the board goes like this:
  • Fultz (celts)
  • Ball (lal)
  • Jackson (76ers)
  • Tatum (suns)
  • Isaac (sac)
Then there is 4 players to be taken between 6-9 before the Kings pick again and 5 guards on board and 1 big:
  • Fox
  • Monk
  • Smith
  • Ntlinkina
  • Donovan
The other player who would go between 6-9 potential is Lauri. So in this hypothetical scenario, the Kings have a better chance to address their secondary need than trying to draft PG then get SF help with the #10. This strategy is fraught with problems if you are not simultaneously choosing best player, or player that you rank in the same tier relative to options.

Hypothetically, if the Kings rank Fox and Isaac relatively equal in terms of potential impact and all-star potential, then they could draft Isaac with the knowing they will have better opportunity to get help at PG with the #10 pick.
 
Would be a huge step forward. I'd give it an A. There'd be more moves too.
Tatum, Knight and whoever we get at #10 would be an F.

Tatum is deceptively overrated, in fact, for a while he even had me fooled! :)

He is a "polished" and "smooth" scorer who only managed a 56% TS? o_O That's okay but not great. He's not explosive or physical enough to get to line a ton. He never had a 30 point game. 5 FTAs in 33 MPG is good but not great for someone who is suppose to be so "advanced" as scorer. He made only 34% of his 3s which is Ben Mc Lemore-esque who made 35% on his 3s over his career and 38% this year at 3 feet deeper. Tatum is not explosive, lacks quick first step, bricked a lot of threes, and as I said in the post above is relatively passive as a defender and rebounder. He's not much of a shot creator for his teammates.

He does have a bit of left hand and sharp footwork and a decent jab step and patience to read the defense..... Meh.

Brandon Knight is owed 45M over the next 3 years and couldn't crack rotation on the 2nd worst team and shot 40%. I don't want him on my team unless we are acquiring the 4th pick to take on the burden.
 
The more I watch Tatum, the less I like him. The more I watch of Isaac, the more I like him. In fact, it's not that close. Tatum plays soft on the interior, he's not that active. Isaac is a tremendous defender. He's a terrific defensive rebounder. Isaac knows where to be on the court and can swarm guards. You don't get any of that from Tatum. Tatum has the length, allegedly, with his 6'11" wingspan, but I question that measurement perhaps in the Thomas Robinson-esque mold who was suppose to 6"10" then showed up to Kings camp 6'8" :eek:

Frankly anyone who is concluding Tatum over Isaac, I question your analytical prowess, which when a poll was taken was about 70% of the board. I encourage fans to watch the full games on YouTube to get full picture instead of highlight clips that can be misleading.

Isaac represents everything the Kings need and have been lacking. What's not to love about that?! And he is barely scratching the surface of who he can be as a scorer. With his agility and touch and length and constant activity, he has the potential to a 20 PPG 12 RPG 3 APG player in our league.

There's even an argument to be made that if Fox falls to #5 and the Kings have choice between Fox and Isaac, they could be better off drafting Isaac! :eek: Now I am not necessarily advocating this, but if the board goes like this:
  • Fultz (celts)
  • Ball (lal)
  • Jackson (76ers)
  • Tatum (suns)
  • Isaac (sac)
Then there is 4 players to be taken between 6-9 before the Kings pick again and 5 guards on board and 1 big:
  • Fox
  • Monk
  • Smith
  • Ntlinkina
  • Donovan
The other player who would go between 6-9 potential is Lauri. So in this hypothetical scenario, the Kings have a better chance to address their secondary need than trying to draft PG then get SF help with the #10. This strategy is fraught with problems if you are not simultaneously choosing best player, or player that you rank in the same tier relative to options.

Hypothetically, if the Kings rank Fox and Isaac relatively equal in terms of potential impact and all-star potential, then they could draft Isaac with the knowing they will have better opportunity to get help at PG with the #10 pick.
I've thought a lot about this... Isaac/Ntilikina seems like a realistic scenario that would give this team crazy length and defensive upside at those two positions. I really like that pairing.

That said, passing on Fox for Isaac is too big a gamble for me. Fox is my guy at #5 if he's there and I think he will be. Trading up for Isaac after selecting Fox is something I'd definitely look into if I were Vlade however.
 
I've thought a lot about this... Isaac/Ntilikina seems like a realistic scenario that would give this team crazy length and defensive upside at those two positions. I really like that pairing.

That said, passing on Fox for Isaac is too big a gamble for me. Fox is my guy at #5 if he's there and I think he will be. Trading up for Isaac after selecting Fox is something I'd definitely look into if I were Vlade however.
You are I are on the same page though I am souring on Frank N in favor of Donovan Mitchell. Donovan is ready to ball from Day 1. Frank could easily be a 13th man next season. He has a nice shot and vitals, but I wonder about his lack of his burst and transition to a new country and culture at young age. I want a guy at #10 who can be a part of our rotation immediately with as much as upside as the guy we pass on. I don't see anything in Donovan's game to discourage me in this regard.

Right now with almost NO LUCK on draft day we can walk away with Isaac and Donovan at #5 and #10. We would be acquiring two AMAZING defensive prospects. This has to be so tempting to me if I was GM given our pathetic ranking for so long.

Then we will fill in scorers around these guys with free agency and trades and all our cap space, I am proposing this as a Plan B in lieu of De'Aaron Fox going Top 4.

If we cannot get Otto Porter then we should target Allen Crabbe. I know he's overpaid, but he's under utilized in Portland. He can be a 16-20 PPG scorer at the SF position and he's a PLUS defender. This would give a third capable scorer to go with Skal and Buddy.

Then we put a bunch of defenders around them.....BOOM!!! Playoffs in 2018!!!:)

We bring back Lawson, pencil in Bogdan behind him and our team looks like this:

PG: Lawson, Bogdan
SG: Buddy, Donovan
SF: Isaac, Crabbe, Malachi
PF: Skal,
C: Willie, Papa G

We still need back-up help at PF but we have plenty of cap space to address that.

(EDIT: I forgot Malachi. We play him at SF and shift Isaac down to PF for backup minutes. He can play there easily).

This is a HECK of a team right here....defense, shooting length, rebounding... unstoppable. ;)

I particularly like our length on the frontline, shooting in the backcourt. Isaac is GLUE on this team to trap guards on the pick and rolls AND help back on the glass with Willie to dominate the boards.

What is Vlade's email address or phone # I need to forward this proposal to him so he can take the next two weeks off :cool:
 
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You are I are on the same page though I am souring on Frank N in favor of Donovan Mitchell. Donovan is ready to ball from Day 1. Frank could easily be a 13th man next season. He has a nice shot and vitals, but I wonder about his lack of his burst and transition to a new country and culture at young age. I want a guy at #10 who can be a part of our rotation immediately with as much as upside as the guy we pass on. I don't see anything in Donovan's game to discourage me in this regard.

Right now with almost NO LUCK on draft day we can walk away with Isaac and Donovan at #5 and #10. We would be acquiring two AMAZING defensive prospects. This has to be so tempting to me if I was GM given our pathetic ranking for so long.

Then we will fill in scorers around these guys with free agency and trades and all our cap space, I am proposing this as a Plan B in lieu of De'Aaron Fox going Top 4.

If we cannot get Otto Porter then we should target Allen Crabbe. I know he's overpaid, but he's under utilized in Portland. He can be a 16-20 PPG scorer at the SF position and he's a PLUS defender. This would give a third capable scorer to go with Skal and Buddy.

Then we put a bunch of defenders around them.....BOOM!!! Playoffs in 2018!!!:)

We bring back Lawson, pencil in Bogdan behind him and our team looks like this:

PG: Lawson, Bogdan
SG: Buddy, Donovan
SF: Isaac, Crabbe, Malachi
PF: Skal,
C: Willie, Papa G

We still need back-up help at PF but we have plenty of cap space to address that.

(EDIT: I forgot Malachi. We play him at SF and shift Isaac down to PF for backup minutes. He can play there easily).

This is a HECK of a team right here....defense, shooting length, rebounding... unstoppable. ;)

I particularly like our length on the frontline, shooting in the backcourt. Isaac is GLUE on this team to trap guards on the pick and rolls AND help back on the glass with Willie to dominate the boards.

What is Vlade's email address or phone # I need to forward this proposal to him so he can take the next two weeks off :cool:
Mitchell is where we differ... I don't think he's a pg and we don't need another sg. Frank N can play the point and hopefully defend at a high level as well.

But yeah Isaac is obviously the focal point here. He'll bring so much versatility defensively and has nice upside offensively as well.
 

Capt. Factorial

trifolium contra tempestatem subrigere certum est
Staff member
Keep in mind that the DX mock draft reaches its peak of reliability within a few hours of the draft, as Givony usually gets some late-breaking insight and adjusts his mock accordingly. It's still a bit early on for us to take Tatum as a given (especially since I believe he updated overnight and yesterday he had Fox to the Kings). Lots left to play out. At any rate, at least one very good player will be there at #5, if not two or three. We just have to figure out who is the best of the bunch.
 
If Vlade drafts Tatum with Isaac on the board I will call for his firing. :cool: If he drafts Smith Jr. at #10 I will do the same. :cool:

It will be front office negligence and borderline fan abuse to draft ONE or TWO guys who project as mediocre to poor defenders AND tunnel vision offensive players in an effort to turn around this team from the depths of despair.

In fact, I will be discouraged and alarmed if Tatum and/or Smith are invited to SAC. They are not the type of players we need and ane diehard fan who does a deep depth dive into the skillsets of these respective players will come to this conclusion.
 
I'd take Tatum all day, every day over Isaac at 5. I kind of agree with Isaac being more of a project. I never once saw him take over a game. I did see that out of Tatum from time to time.
Watch this game vs. North Carolina. (No slouch opponent). Isaac dominates defensively. He's everywhere on the perimeter and interior. He knows where to be instinctively. You can also see his potential as an offensive player. He's super active and engaged versus the passivity of Tatum. If you don't see these obvious attributes, I don't know what to tell you. Isaac is not a project. He can play 20+ MPG next year.

 
Watch this game vs. North Carolina. (No slouch opponent). Isaac dominates defensively. He's everywhere on the perimeter and interior. He knows where to be instinctively. You can also see his potential as an offensive player. He's super active and engaged versus the passivity of Tatum. If you don't see these obvious attributes, I don't know what to tell you. Isaac is not a project. He can play 20+ MPG next year.

Don't get me wrong, I like Isaac, in fact, I watched more of his games this year than any other college player. That said, while I get his potential I've seen Tatum do almost everything you can with the ball and score against teams in which the sole purpose of their defense is to stop him. And by project I think he's more undeveloped than the others. He's farther away physically and skill wise from Tatum and assuming he'll get to that same level offensively is just that, assuming. He could get there, he could even surpass it. I just think there is more on tape to suggest Tatum is a safer bet.

If Vlade figured Isaac was the best choice then I'm cool with it. If they called either Tatum or Isaacs name on draft night at 5 I wouldn't be angry at all. If it were me, I'm taking Tatum though.
 

bajaden

Hall of Famer
Don't get me wrong, I like Isaac, in fact, I watched more of his games this year than any other college player. That said, while I get his potential I've seen Tatum do almost everything you can with the ball and score against teams in which the sole purpose of their defense is to stop him. And by project I think he's more undeveloped than the others. He's farther away physically and skill wise from Tatum and assuming he'll get to that same level offensively is just that, assuming. He could get there, he could even surpass it. I just think there is more on tape to suggest Tatum is a safer bet.

If Vlade figured Isaac was the best choice then I'm cool with it. If they called either Tatum or Isaacs name on draft night at 5 I wouldn't be angry at all. If it were me, I'm taking Tatum though.
Yeah, I agree. I lean more toward Isaac, but wouldn't have a problem with Tatum. In some ways, their almost the exact opposite of each other, when measuring their abilities. Tatum is, other than maybe Fultz and Smith, the most talented offensive player in the draft. He can shoot the three, score from mid-range, and score at the basket. Yeah, there are questions about his being a ball stopper, which I think are overrated, and there are questions about how good a defender he can be, although most scouts don't think he'll be a liability on defense.

Isaac on the other hand, is considered one of the best, if not the best defender in the draft. Yeah, there are questions about his strength, and the occasional bad decision on defense, but nothing that's a red flag. Most of the questions are about how good an offensive player he can be. Does he lack aggression, or was he a victim of the system he played in. Personally, I think its more the latter than the former. Whatever questions people may have, most think his floor is as a top 3 and D player.

So maybe at five, it becomes more of a matter of fit. Who best fits the team your trying to build? Both players are really good at something, and not terrible at anything. I think both players have a pretty high ceiling. So I'm OK with either if Fox is gone. I just happen to like Isaac a little better for the Kings.
 
Yeah, I agree. I lean more toward Isaac, but wouldn't have a problem with Tatum. In some ways, their almost the exact opposite of each other, when measuring their abilities. Tatum is, other than maybe Fultz and Smith, the most talented offensive player in the draft. He can shoot the three, score from mid-range, and score at the basket. Yeah, there are questions about his being a ball stopper, which I think are overrated, and there are questions about how good a defender he can be, although most scouts don't think he'll be a liability on defense.

Isaac on the other hand, is considered one of the best, if not the best defender in the draft. Yeah, there are questions about his strength, and the occasional bad decision on defense, but nothing that's a red flag. Most of the questions are about how good an offensive player he can be. Does he lack aggression, or was he a victim of the system he played in. Personally, I think its more the latter than the former. Whatever questions people may have, most think his floor is as a top 3 and D player.

So maybe at five, it becomes more of a matter of fit. Who best fits the team your trying to build? Both players are really good at something, and not terrible at anything. I think both players have a pretty high ceiling. So I'm OK with either if Fox is gone. I just happen to like Isaac a little better for the Kings.
No issac isn't that good at perimeter defense and has shaky handle and explosiveness. If Vlade picks Tatum over him it's perfectly fine he takes Issac that's fine too

And of it went like draftexpress has it and we walk it with Smith/Tatum than Vlade gets an A
 
Yeah, I agree. I lean more toward Isaac, but wouldn't have a problem with Tatum. In some ways, their almost the exact opposite of each other, when measuring their abilities. Tatum is, other than maybe Fultz and Smith, the most talented offensive player in the draft. He can shoot the three, score from mid-range, and score at the basket. Yeah, there are questions about his being a ball stopper, which I think are overrated, and there are questions about how good a defender he can be, although most scouts don't think he'll be a liability on defense.

Isaac on the other hand, is considered one of the best, if not the best defender in the draft. Yeah, there are questions about his strength, and the occasional bad decision on defense, but nothing that's a red flag. Most of the questions are about how good an offensive player he can be. Does he lack aggression, or was he a victim of the system he played in. Personally, I think its more the latter than the former. Whatever questions people may have, most think his floor is as a top 3 and D player.

So maybe at five, it becomes more of a matter of fit. Who best fits the team your trying to build? Both players are really good at something, and not terrible at anything. I think both players have a pretty high ceiling. So I'm OK with either if Fox is gone. I just happen to like Isaac a little better for the Kings.

That's one thing I like about Isaac over Tatum. I agree it's a bit overrated but I can see the thought process behind the opinion. Isaac at Florida State never complained of the role he had which suggests he could fit in almost any scenario and be willing to do what is asked.

I'm not as sold on Isaac as a truly elite defender, I do think there is the potential of course. I guess it would depend on what position he played. Isaac played a role more closely resembling that of a small ball perimeter oriented PF in which his length aided him greatly. The question with him is what happens if he is asked to take on the role of a SF full time. I've seen opinions differ on what position he'll even play at the NBA level and some believe he'll be better as a PF. I think he'll obviously play both and honestly it's another notch of why to draft him if you're the Kings. The Kings are moving towards the idea of positionless basketball so they may be better prepared to handle that question than almost any other team.
 
That's one thing I like about Isaac over Tatum. I agree it's a bit overrated but I can see the thought process behind the opinion. Isaac at Florida State never complained of the role he had which suggests he could fit in almost any scenario and be willing to do what is asked.

I'm not as sold on Isaac as a truly elite defender, I do think there is the potential of course. I guess it would depend on what position he played. Isaac played a role more closely resembling that of a small ball perimeter oriented PF in which his length aided him greatly. The question with him is what happens if he is asked to take on the role of a SF full time. I've seen opinions differ on what position he'll even play at the NBA level and some believe he'll be better as a PF. I think he'll obviously play both and honestly it's another notch of why to draft him if you're the Kings. The Kings are moving towards the idea of positionless basketball so they may be better prepared to handle that question than almost any other team.
I saw one analyst who said something like if you're gonna play Isaac at sf he's a top 20 pick, at pf he's a top ten, and if you think he can play center he's a top five talent. The thought is he's Noel with a jumper.
 
I saw one analyst who said something like if you're gonna play Isaac at sf he's a top 20 pick, at pf he's a top ten, and if you think he can play center he's a top five talent. The thought is he's Noel with a jumper.
Maybe he is top 5 because he can play all of those positions. I love his laterall quicks.
 

Kingster

Hall of Famer
Keep in mind that the DX mock draft reaches its peak of reliability within a few hours of the draft, as Givony usually gets some late-breaking insight and adjusts his mock accordingly. It's still a bit early on for us to take Tatum as a given (especially since I believe he updated overnight and yesterday he had Fox to the Kings). Lots left to play out. At any rate, at least one very good player will be there at #5, if not two or three. We just have to figure out who is the best of the bunch.
Good point. DX isn't meant to be the Holy Grail anyway. It seem to be the best of the lot. That's all that is intimated.
 
Tatum was scheduled to work out for the Suns yesterday. If they still see Booker and Bledsoe as 1a and 1b on offense, I wonder about a Tatum fit. They also have Warren at the 3 who is up for a contract soon.

The Suns also supposedly had a "secret" private work out with Isaac a few days ago with no media availability according to a local radio personality.

Figuring out the Suns is difficult.
 
Tatum was scheduled to work out for the Suns yesterday. If they still see Booker and Bledsoe as 1a and 1b on offense, I wonder about a Tatum fit. They also have Warren at the 3 who is up for a contract soon.

The Suns also supposedly had a "secret" private work out with Isaac a few days ago with no media availability according to a local radio personality.

Figuring out the Suns is difficult.
I don't think it would be too difficult to figure them out for our front office but it might be for the fans.

I still think that they are hoping for Josh Jackson and if he is not there I think they will pick Isaac. Just a hunch.

I think this will be the top 5

Fultz
Ball
Jackson
Isaac
Fox

At 6 it gets a bit interesting. IMHO, Tatum is a perfect fit there but I think Smith, Tatum and Monk will be in conversation for that spot. Now that that idiot PDA is part of the magic front office, Monk's stock will rise there. Maybe he will be interested to trade pcik 6 for draft rights to Alex Oriakhi?!
 
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I think they both h
I don't think it would be too difficult to figure them out for our front office but it might be for the fans.

I still think that they are hoping for Josh Jackson and if he is not there I think they will pick Isaac. Just a hunch.

I think this will be the top 5

Fultz
Ball
Jackson
Isaac
Fox

At 6 it gets a bit interesting. IMHO, Tatum is a perfect fit there but I think Smith, Tatum and Monk will be in conversation for that spot. Now that that idiot PDA is part of the magic front office, Monk's sock will rise there. Maybe he will be interested to trade pcik 6 for draft rights to Alex Oriakhi?!
I would really like a top 5 like that where the Kings come away with Fox without having to move up. I would hope in a situation like that we could do something to move up from 10 and nab Tatum. Ideally we use our cap space for an extra first that we can package with 10 for the move up.

In other news I'm ready for the draft to be here.
 
https://www.canishoopus.com/2017/6/17/15815368/smilodon-says-2017-top-ten-fultz-ball-isaac

Here's an article on a skills based rating system where Tatum comes out looking like the best prospect in the draft. Jabrari Parker looks like the best comp in recent drafts.
Overall on this site we're pretty pro fox. Reading stuff from other fan sites they don't seem as high on him as us which is a bit concerning. I think mainly because of his shot he's often compared to Elfrid Payton or mudiaye. I really hope his shot develops or else we have all been scare of him not falling to us for no reason and he's lower on everyone's list for a reason.
 
Overall on this site we're pretty pro fox. Reading stuff from other fan sites they don't seem as high on him as us which is a bit concerning. I think mainly because of his shot he's often compared to Elfrid Payton or mudiaye. I really hope his shot develops or else we have all been scare of him not falling to us for no reason and he's lower on everyone's list for a reason.
I followed Payton and especially Mudiay's amatuer career quite closely. I caught the Payton hype-train quite early. De'Aaron Fox is greater, i'm sure of it.

As far as the Tatum / Jabari comp... I prefer Tatum, he's more versatile and less of a liability on defense, a nasty secret a lot of people don't realize about Jabari's defense is that you can exploit it by stretching the floor and getting wide open looks from the corner 3....... There was a game last season where Utah (who's got one of the best coaches in the biz) just straight abused them on those corner 3's. Tatum's no all-world defender but he's not even in the same league as Jabari as far as being a sieve.

I'm telling ya's the comp for Tatum is in-fact Gordon Hayward. He's got the juice like that.
 
Overall on this site we're pretty pro fox. Reading stuff from other fan sites they don't seem as high on him as us which is a bit concerning. I think mainly because of his shot he's often compared to Elfrid Payton or mudiaye. I really hope his shot develops or else we have all been scare of him not falling to us for no reason and he's lower on everyone's list for a reason.
It's a legit concern imo and the main reason why I don't think we've ever needed to panic as a fan base about him not being there at five... He'll be there because Tatum is gonna go ahead of him I believe.
 
Overall on this site we're pretty pro fox. Reading stuff from other fan sites they don't seem as high on him as us which is a bit concerning. I think mainly because of his shot he's often compared to Elfrid Payton or mudiaye. I really hope his shot develops or else we have all been scare of him not falling to us for no reason and he's lower on everyone's list for a reason.
I was leaning Fox this whole time, but I am now leaning Tatum at 5.

Watching the Recent Fox workouts, his shot looks improved, but it looks slow and deliberate. Kinda like what I saw in mudiay's workout videos a couple of years ago. His shot doesn't look quick or smooth, I'm concerned that it won't translate to game time.

Tatum just looks so smooth and polished in his offensive game. He has a smooth fade away Jumper that I haven't really seen since Kobe Bryant. He is the real deal and I am hoping he drops to us at 5.

At 10, I'm hoping Frank N will be there to be our 3 and D point guard.

I think he top 10 goes:

1) Fultz- philly
2) Ball- lakers
3) Jackson- Boston
4) Issac - Phoenix
5) Tatum - Kings
6) Fox or DSJ- magic
7) Collins - Minnesota
8) Monk - New York
9) Markarren or DSJ- Dallas
10) Frank N or DSJ - Kings

I think it would be great night if we walk out with Tatum (5) and Frank N (or DSJ) (10) on Thursday night. :)
 
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