OG ANUNOBY

#61
The talk of the agents is because their kids would get minutes in Sacramento. Its not because we are all of a sudden the prime destination for the draftees.

Scott Perry is a great hire and in reality all the managers that were quoted that they would let their clients work out for the Kings have a pre-existing relationship with Scott (i.e BJ Armstrong has known him since high school)

The laughing stock and dis-functional franchise label is still well and truly there and it is not something that will be shed any time soon. Again it is another thing to "attract" a draftee and yet another to attract an "upper level free agent".

Rebuilds are not a quick thing unless you can sign a superstar free agents. It doesn't work like that for the small market franchise. Noah's contract is an albatross and I pause about it too but the bottom line is:
Well, the agents of rookie draftees are also the same agents for veteran free agents, so if the Kings can have a good experience with their new rookies and their agents, that can trickle down to the agent's veteran free agents in the future. Also, Scott Perry is still with the Kings, so that can only help with players agents in the future.

I'm not saying we will sign Kevin Durant or Steph Curry here, but good free agents may be willing to sign here. Koufos and Belilini and Collison were respected free agents a couple of summers ago and we signed them. Otto Porter may be highly unlikely, but I don't see the harm in making a pitch and see what happens. If he says no, then so be it, we still have cap space to use in a trade or other free agents.

I would much rather use the cap space on a trade for usable players like Mo Harkless or Brandon Knight, for a team that is in need for luxury tax or salary cap relief.

At the beginning of free agency each year, taking on a normal salary dump may net us a future 1st round pick. Using the cap space on a toxic salary dump for a player like Noah can kill our flexibility to make moves for players for 3 years. For a small market team, $56 million for dead cap space is hard to swallow.

I would rather use the cap space to try to and sign someone like SF Shabazz Muhmmad with some of the cap space, who is still young and has upside and is a California native.

And, if you are looking at the Knicks 2019 draft pick, you never know that far in the future. If Porzingis becomes a monster and they hit on their lottery pick this year and next year, and they sign a big free agent by 2019 (they are in the #1 media market in the world), you may be looking at a late teens or early 20's 1st round pick, instead of a lottery pick by 2019.

I would look to another small market team in Utah as a blue print to rebuild. They built through the draft, drafted well and developed their own players and now they are a solid playoff team. They didn't take on any toxic contracts in their rebuild. As a small market team, taking on a $56 million albatross of a contract can restrict a lot of moves for a small market team for many years.
 
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#62
Well, the agents of rookie draftees are also the same agents for veteran free agents, so if the Kings can have a good experience with their new rookies and their agents, that can trickle down to the agent's veteran free agents in the future. Also, Scott Perry is still with the Kings, so that can only help with players agents in the future.

I'm not saying we will sign Kevin Durant or Steph Curry here, but good free agents may be willing to sign here. Koufos and Belilini and Collison were respected free agents a couple of summers ago and we signed them. Otto Porter may be highly unlikely, but I don't see the harm in making a pitch and see what happens. If he says no, then so be it, we still have cap space to use in a trade or other free agents.

I would much rather use the cap space on a trade for usable players like Mo Harkless or Brandon Knight, for a team that is in need for luxury tax or salary cap relief.

At the beginning of free agency each year, taking on a normal salary dump may net us a future 1st round pick. Using the cap space on a toxic salary dump for a player like Noah can kill our flexibility to make moves for players for 3 years. For a small market team, $56 million for dead cap space is hard to swallow.

I would rather use the cap space to try to and sign someone like SF Shabazz Muhmmad with some of the cap space, who is still young and has upside and is a California native.

And, if you are looking at the Knicks 2019 draft pick, you never know that far in the future. If Porzingis becomes a monster and they hit on their lottery pick this year and next year, and they sign a big free agent by 2019 (they are in the #1 media market in the world), you may be looking at a late teens or early 20's 1st round pick, instead of a lottery pick by 2019.

I would look to another small market team in Utah as a blue print to rebuild. They built through the draft, drafted well and developed their own players and now they are a solid playoff team. They didn't take on any toxic contracts in their rebuild. As a small market team, taking on a $56 million albatross of a contract can restrict a lot of moves for a small market team for many years.
We are trying to rebuild through the draft, and moving up to 8 from 10, which is most likely the difference in netting a top tier PG if we select a SF, and a likely lottery pick may help in that regard

We are living in a different economic climate than Utah, although they did take Biedrins. The cap will jump, and a team like the Kings who aren't a FA destination will have to spend the money somehow. Not to mention winning isn't the actual goal for next season, but developing. Taking on dead salary is something I predict will happen this summer
 
#63
We are trying to rebuild through the draft, and moving up to 8 from 10, which is most likely the difference in netting a top tier PG if we select a SF, and a likely lottery pick may help in that regard

We are living in a different economic climate than Utah, although they did take Biedrins. The cap will jump, and a team like the Kings who aren't a FA destination will have to spend the money somehow. Not to mention winning isn't the actual goal for next season, but developing. Taking on dead salary is something I predict will happen this summer
If they don't reach the cap, the players get the difference and you still have the flexibility next year. You have until the end of the year to spend it so come the trade deadline you may have more teams wanting salary cap relief when things don't go their way. At that point it would be safe to assume there would be fewer teams with the cap space and with some of that premium space available can extract a higher price for it.
 
#64
We are trying to rebuild through the draft, and moving up to 8 from 10, which is most likely the difference in netting a top tier PG if we select a SF, and a likely lottery pick may help in that regard

We are living in a different economic climate than Utah, although they did take Biedrins. The cap will jump, and a team like the Kings who aren't a FA destination will have to spend the money somehow. Not to mention winning isn't the actual goal for next season, but developing. Taking on dead salary is something I predict will happen this summer
Taking on a toxic salary dump with one year (maybe 2 years left) may be acceptable.

But taking on someone else massive, toxic mistake (3 years and $56 million) for one future 1st round pick and a 2 spot move up is way overpaying for a future pick that may wind up in the mid to high teens by 2019. Would you be willing to pay $56 million for a pick that could possibly wind up in the #13-22 range pick by 2019?

I think that money would be better spent trying to make trades for players or free agents that can be useful to the team's future.
 
#66
Taking on a toxic salary dump with one year (maybe 2 years left) may be acceptable.

But taking on someone else massive, toxic mistake (3 years and $56 million) for one future 1st round pick and a 2 spot move up is way overpaying for a future pick that may wind up in the mid to high teens by 2019. Would you be willing to pay $56 million for a pick that could possibly wind up in the #13-22 range pick by 2019?

I think that money would be better spent trying to make trades for players or free agents that can be useful to the team's future.
Kings wont be good in three years anyway so of course we should eat that contract if we could get swap this year, knicks future 1st and possibly a future 1st swap. No point in using cap space to overpay second tier free agents and finishing with 32 wins and drafting number nine. That just makes it sure that Kings keeps being in that 10th to 8th seed range
 

kingsboi

Hall of Famer
#67
watching tape on OG, he seems really slow. He needs to shed some weight when he comes to the pros to keep up with the speed of the game, the game isn't about being big and bulky anymore. Speed kills.
 
#68
Kings wont be good in three years anyway so of course we should eat that contract if we could get swap this year, knicks future 1st and possibly a future 1st swap. No point in using cap space to overpay second tier free agents and finishing with 32 wins and drafting number nine. That just makes it sure that Kings keeps being in that 10th to 8th seed range
If we are going to sign "second tier" free agents, you would do similar deals to what Vlade did last summer. You sign them to a team friendly contract like Afflalo and Tolliver, that gives the team an opt out option, if we need the cap space or to use in a trade. If these "second tier" players prove their worth, then you opt in to the additional years. That way you keep your salary cap flexibility, without tying up $56 million over 3 years in your salary cap.

But, at this point, I am tired of arguing my point over and over again.

Everyone has their own opinion. I guess we will see what Vlade does this summer.
 
#69
watching tape on OG, he seems really slow. He needs to shed some weight when he comes to the pros to keep up with the speed of the game, the game isn't about being big and bulky anymore. Speed kills.
I have this feeling when I watch him. I'm not sure it's weight or what but I'm not sure you want this guy at SF very much.
 
#70
I have this feeling when I watch him. I'm not sure it's weight or what but I'm not sure you want this guy at SF very much.
Slow isn't the right word, maybe he's a bit lumbering on straightline drives, he's got an explosive 1st step tho..

This clip of him defending Frank Mason with the game on the line might help change your mind. He's very quick laterally for someone that size.. He projects as a player who can guard multiple positions.. 2-4.. Frank Mason is pretty fast too, a good measuring stick for sure.

 
#71
If we are going to sign "second tier" free agents, you would do similar deals to what Vlade did last summer. You sign them to a team friendly contract like Afflalo and Tolliver, that gives the team an opt out option, if we need the cap space or to use in a trade. If these "second tier" players prove their worth, then you opt in to the additional years. That way you keep your salary cap flexibility, without tying up $56 million over 3 years in your salary cap.

But, at this point, I am tired of arguing my point over and over again.

Everyone has their own opinion. I guess we will see what Vlade does this summer.
Why should we sing players like Afflalo or Tolliver, even if we could get them in those 1+1 partially guaranteed contracts? Are the Kings hoping to get 30 wins? Kings have tons of player to develope (or at least they have to figure out who is worth to build around): Hield, Skal, WCS, Malachi, Bogdanovic, PapaG, two first rounders this year, 34th pick, possibly I Cousins. Why would you sing vets to play before them and and at the same time ruin their draft position?

Edit: The point of having cap flexibility for the team like Kings is to use it to gather assets. You gather better assets by eating dead salary and getting compensated by draft picks. In free agency you get complimentary veteran players to add to your core but it only efficent if you do it after you got a good enough core. Otherwise you are just doomed to mediocrety by winning 32 games a year and keep drafting just outside those possible franchise players
 
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#72
Why should we sing players like Afflalo or Tolliver, even if we could get them in those 1+1 partially guaranteed contracts? Are the Kings hoping to get 30 wins? Kings have tons of player to develope (or at least they have to figure out who is worth to build around): Hield, Skal, WCS, Malachi, Bogdanovic, PapaG, two first rounders this year, 34th pick, possibly I Cousins. Why would you sing vets to play before them and and at the same time ruin their draft position?

Edit: The point of having cap flexibility for the team like Kings is to use it to gather assets. You gather better assets by eating dead salary and getting compensated by draft picks. In free agency you get complimentary veteran players to add to your core but it only efficent if you do it after you got a good enough core. Otherwise you are just doomed to mediocrety by winning 32 games a year and keep drafting just outside those possible franchise players
Like I said, I am done arguing my point over and over again.

Everyone has their own opinion, we will see what Vlade does this summer.
 

kingsboi

Hall of Famer
#73
Slow isn't the right word, maybe he's a bit lumbering on straightline drives, he's got an explosive 1st step tho..

This clip of him defending Frank Mason with the game on the line might help change your mind. He's very quick laterally for someone that size.. He projects as a player who can guard multiple positions.. 2-4.. Frank Mason is pretty fast too, a good measuring stick for sure.

I don't want to take away his ability to be a quality man defender. One clip of defense doesn't really do much justice. When I watch him though, I just sense everything is really slow and in college basketball he may get away with it but in the pros? I don't see it. James Johnson came into the league as a defender and since then, has lost a considerable amount of weight and in return, has become a serviceable and productive player for the Heat last season.
 
#75
I don't want to take away his ability to be a quality man defender. One clip of defense doesn't really do much justice. When I watch him though, I just sense everything is really slow and in college basketball he may get away with it but in the pros? I don't see it. James Johnson came into the league as a defender and since then, has lost a considerable amount of weight and in return, has become a serviceable and productive player for the Heat last season.
I don't mean to be argumentative or try to hold dominion over the conversation but I root for Wake Forest in the ACC and I watched James Johnson play a ton of games, I really don't think he's a great comparison point, the more I think about it, it's a pretty good one tho.. James Johnson was seen as a tweener and at Wake was much more on the side of PF tweenerism. OG's primary position, SF, is much more well defined. James wasn't the kind of man-to-man defensive force as OG at the same stage. Both are extremely powerful, there are some parallels.

I'll get back to you on a player comp, there's not really a good one that comes to mind. OG is a fairly unique athlete. What a recruit for Tom Crean, it's amazing a player with that physical profile was overlooked.

Skip to 2:22 for more examples of his defensive prowess on the perimeter. Its funny this video says "reportedly has a 7'6" wingspan" that was echoed so many times over and clearly it was always a misprint of Thomas Bryant's wingspan... How people didn't piece that together is beyond me.
 
#76
And you have to pay to read the crap. :rolleyes:
Not for long. He was one of the casualties of ESPN's recent layoffs (and with good reason). That deadspin article was damning.. DX has been caught changing their drafts after the fact too.. The way DX does some things is fishy to me too. They killed Zach LaVine all year, wouldn't put him in the first round and then right before the draft just slipped him in there. That was bogus. Their interactions with Terry Rozier rubbed me the wrong way too and Rozier had the last laugh.
 
#77
The talk of the agents is because their kids would get minutes in Sacramento. Its not because we are all of a sudden the prime destination for the draftees.

Scott Perry is a great hire and in reality all the managers that were quoted that they would let their clients work out for the Kings have a pre-existing relationship with Scott (i.e BJ Armstrong has known him since high school)

The laughing stock and dis-functional franchise label is still well and truly there and it is not something that will be shed any time soon. Again it is another thing to "attract" a draftee and yet another to attract an "upper level free agent".

Rebuilds are not a quick thing unless you can sign a superstar free agents. It doesn't work like that for the small market franchise. Noah's contract is an albatross and I pause about it too but the bottom line is:

- Kings will not be a good team for at least 3 season. Even the best of rebuilds take 4-5 years
- Kings will still need to use the cap space to get to the salary cap floor and that will be tough given the projected number of kids on the roster
- Kings have gone for the full blown rebuild so it is about accumulation of assets and long term planning
- Kings don't have a lot of assets and its complicated even further by that unprotected 1st round pick in 2019 going to Philadelphia

While ideally, the contracts you take on are attached to useful players that can play for you, it is often not the case. The only time when Kings are able to attract top free agents (and I don't mean superstars) it when they turn into contenders.

In the mean time for Kings to get there, they will need to:

- Draft exceptionally well
- Develop their youngsters really well. This is more difficult in a full blown rebuild where young players tend to get playing time regardless of readiness
- Use their cap space to create more assets that turn into young players (see how Philadelphia used cap space to get a pick swap out of us and a pick with no protection in 2019)
- Trade very well with your long term goal in mind.
- Hope like crazy that you are lucky enough to draft a genuine franchise level player (i.e. not lower tier "franchise" players like Gordon Hayward who is a very good player but just not a franchise level player)

Once you get your franchise level guy, and you are ready to contend or you are already a contender, then you go free agent shopping for upper echelon free agents that will push you closer to the goal. In the mean time, it is about putting yourself in a position to have the ability to make those moves when the time is right.

I would absolutely LOVE it if the Kings walk away from the draft with Fultz and out of free agency with Otto Porter Jr. but I am realistic enough to know the chances of that are very very slim.
The reason SAC is more attractive destination is because the Drama Queen has been exiled. How do you miss this? You don't think players and agents talk and text about Boogie and his volatile, vulgar, scowling nature between the lines, his run-ins with Karl, teammates and non-stop histrionics on the court? Or see it for themselves with his record setting Ts?!

The guy barked, moaned and whined for 48 minutes and players do NOT want that distraction. They have their own self interest and careers to consider. It is draining and annoying to try to excel in the midst of that. Sure, maybe they will give it a try if the money is right (see Temple, Marco, Koufos, etc) but if a less dysfunctional situation presented itself, the alternative was a no-brainer.

It is curious and enlightening guys like Skal and Willie went from afterthoughts to contributors once Boogie was dismissed. If the guy was so great why could he not combine his immense talents with other talented players? He could not develop meaningful synergy with Tyreke or Isaiah or Rudy. Boogie wanted Isaiah OUT because he shot too much. I think I am the ONLY Kings fan who reiterates this pertinent fact! Since then Seth Curry did not want to return to SAC because of Cousins.

Now you conclude Perry is the difference maker? Sorry but that is misguided! Perry is little more than another voice in the room and guy to take and make phone calls in lieu of our cell-averse GM. But Perry still defers to Vlade. He's a subordinate. The difference in players seeing SAC as a legitimate destination is removal of Cousins. The word had been spread. The guy was cancer. No one wanted to be around a cancer. If you contend otherwise, look at the paltry return we got....

Where was the Godfather offer? It was NOT forthcoming. I operated under the assumption that Vlade would NOT trade Boogie unless he was presented with an offer he could NOT refuse. But Boogie's reputation had been so tarnished that his improved efficiency and three point accuracy pre-trade did persuade suitors substantially. The Pelicans were aware of his reputation. They were just desperate enough to roll the dice, with both GM and coach maneuvering to save their jobs. This is the crux of the matter, not Scott Perry.

I don't agree with your opinions, one more of which I will dissect. It won't take 3-5 years for SAC to "rebuild". The Jazz and Blazers went from awful to playoffs in less time than that. If all goes well for SAC this summer in regards to draft and free agency, we can compete for playoffs next year. The West is in decline. Teams that defend and play cohesively can win 40 games and garner an 8th seed. Cousins was in the way of maximizing our talent and synergy. That impediment has been removed. :cool:
 

kingsboi

Hall of Famer
#78
I don't mean to be argumentative or try to hold dominion over the conversation but I root for Wake Forest in the ACC and I watched James Johnson play a ton of games, I really don't think he's a great comparison point, the more I think about it, it's a pretty good one tho.. James Johnson was seen as a tweener and at Wake was much more on the side of PF tweenerism. OG's primary position, SF, is much more well defined. James wasn't the kind of man-to-man defensive force as OG at the same stage. Both are extremely powerful, there are some parallels.

I'll get back to you on a player comp, there's not really a good one that comes to mind. OG is a fairly unique athlete. What a recruit for Tom Crean, it's amazing a player with that physical profile was overlooked.

Skip to 2:22 for more examples of his defensive prowess on the perimeter. Its funny this video says "reportedly has a 7'6" wingspan" that was echoed so many times over and clearly it was always a misprint of Thomas Bryant's wingspan... How people didn't piece that together is beyond me.
How about a more defensive oriented Corey Maggette?
 
#79
The reason SAC is more attractive destination is because the Drama Queen has been exiled. How do you miss this? You don't think players and agents talk and text about Boogie and his volatile, vulgar, scowling nature between the lines, his run-ins with Karl, teammates and non-stop histrionics on the court? Or see it for themselves with his record setting Ts?!

The guy barked, moaned and whined for 48 minutes and players do NOT want that distraction. They have their own self interest and careers to consider. It is draining and annoying to try to excel in the midst of that. Sure, maybe they will give it a try if the money is right (see Temple, Marco, Koufos, etc) but if a less dysfunctional situation presented itself, the alternative was a no-brainer.

It is curious and enlightening guys like Skal and Willie went from afterthoughts to contributors once Boogie was dismissed. If the guy was so great why could he not combine his immense talents with other talented players? He could not develop meaningful synergy with Tyreke or Isaiah or Rudy. Boogie wanted Isaiah OUT because he shot too much. I think I am the ONLY Kings fan who reiterates this pertinent fact! Since then Seth Curry did not want to return to SAC because of Cousins.

Now you conclude Perry is the difference maker? Sorry but that is misguided! Perry is little more than another voice in the room and guy to take and make phone calls in lieu of our cell-averse GM. But Perry still defers to Vlade. He's a subordinate. The difference in players seeing SAC as a legitimate destination is removal of Cousins. The word had been spread. The guy was cancer. No one wanted to be around a cancer. If you contend otherwise, look at the paltry return we got....

Where was the Godfather offer? It was NOT forthcoming. I operated under the assumption that Vlade would NOT trade Boogie unless he was presented with an offer he could NOT refuse. But Boogie's reputation had been so tarnished that his improved efficiency and three point accuracy pre-trade did persuade suitors substantially. The Pelicans were aware of his reputation. They were just desperate enough to roll the dice, with both GM and coach maneuvering to save their jobs. This is the crux of the matter, not Scott Perry.

I don't agree with your opinions, one more of which I will dissect. It won't take 3-5 years for SAC to "rebuild". The Jazz and Blazers went from awful to playoffs in less time than that. If all goes well for SAC this summer in regards to draft and free agency, we can compete for playoffs next year. The West is in decline. Teams that defend and play cohesively can win 40 games and garner an 8th seed. Cousins was in the way of maximizing our talent and synergy. That impediment has been removed. :cool:
So pathetically typical but I should not be surprised given the history of holier than thou sniping! It like this constant yapper coming out of woodwork and constantly yapping about single thing....DeMarcus Cousins!

It's Cousins' fault that the franchise could not get out of its own way for the majority of their time in Sacramento.

It is Cousins' fault for constant misjudgement of talent and mismanagement of players.

It is Cousins' fault for the ownership and front office incompetency for a better part of 3 decades.

It is Cousins' fault that owners wanted to relocate the team and it is in spite of Cousins that it was kept.

It's Cousins' fault that Rudy Gay wants no part of the franchise even when Cousins is long gone!

Cousins is all the evil in this world. He is the reason why Sacramento was not a desirable destination for players even when he was playing high school basketball....hell even when he was in his diapers. I am amazed of his cancerous powers for majority of 3 decades. Hell he was cancerous before he was born or conceived.

All is good in the world now that he is gone and Kings are winning the championship within 2 years baby....guaranteed!:rolleyes:

And if you think that NBA is not all about connections, then you have rocks in your head. Perry has been widely touted as a executive with extensive relationships throughout the league from high school coaches to NBA executives and owners. You think Kings get a sit down with Fultz without Perry connections? You mean the same way Kings have always had a sit down with the clear #1 pick when they had no chance of picking that player?! You keep living in that fantasy world if it makes you feel better. I wonder what will your excuse be when the Kings don't sniff play-offs next season? Let me guess...It's all because of that cancer Cousins?! :rolleyes:
 
#80
So pathetically typical but I should not be surprised given the history of holier than thou sniping! It like this constant yapper coming out of woodwork and constantly yapping about single thing....DeMarcus Cousins!

It's Cousins' fault that the franchise could not get out of its own way for the majority of their time in Sacramento.

It is Cousins' fault for constant misjudgement of talent and mismanagement of players.

It is Cousins' fault for the ownership and front office incompetency for a better part of 3 decades.

It is Cousins' fault that owners wanted to relocate the team and it is in spite of Cousins that it was kept.

It's Cousins' fault that Rudy Gay wants no part of the franchise even when Cousins is long gone!

Cousins is all the evil in this world. He is the reason why Sacramento was not a desirable destination for players even when he was playing high school basketball....hell even when he was in his diapers. I am amazed of his cancerous powers for majority of 3 decades. Hell he was cancerous before he was born or conceived.

All is good in the world now that he is gone and Kings are winning the championship within 2 years baby....guaranteed!:rolleyes:

And if you think that NBA is not all about connections, then you have rocks in your head. Perry has been widely touted as a executive with extensive relationships throughout the league from high school coaches to NBA executives and owners. You think Kings get a sit down with Fultz without Perry connections? You mean the same way Kings have always had a sit down with the clear #1 pick when they had no chance of picking that player?! You keep living in that fantasy world if it makes you feel better. I wonder what will your excuse be when the Kings don't sniff play-offs next season? Let me guess...It's all because of that cancer Cousins?! :rolleyes:
A "sit down" with Fultz is a big deal in your mind? Ha-ha, give me a break, he was already in CHI, sparing 15 to 30 minutes is NOT a major coup by our front office. It is just the kid being courteous. But this is not the main issue....

Willie went from struggling underachiever and borderline bust to brand new player in the last 20 games after Boogie exile. Skal went from DNP-CD to a guy with star potential. Why does it take Boogie being off the team for other guys to show what they can do? Why does this guy have to suck so much oxygen and potential off the team? Why does his usage rate have to be 35% and his assist to turnover better than 1:1 for the first time in 7 years?

A true superstar (Kawhi, LeBron, Curry) makes those around him better NOT invisible, impotent and irrelevant!

You also FAIL to address the disconnect between Isaiah and Boogie. This is huge variable in my mind, I LOVE Isaiah. I loved him as a King, and I loved rooting for him as a Celtic. This a-hole did NOT want Isaiah on the team because it reduced his touches and perceived future max contract. I am NOT going to let this go post-mortem when the conversation is broached. A true winner would align with a true winner like Isaiah Thomas, but Boogie apparently did not have use for a PG who NO ONE in the league could guard. Conclusion: Our former "franchise guy" was a self-absorbed narcissistic loser.

I tried my BEST to defend this guy but NO MORE! Why did Boogie NOT align with high quality winner and character guy like Isaiah? Because his ego and self-interest did not allow for it. His opinion of Isaiah relayed to front office undoubtedly and STRONGLY influenced the decision former GM Pete D to cut him loose and sign Darren. This affected fortunes of our franchise irrevocably. And fact Celtics made it to the finals in East with Isaiah leading the way is confirmation.

And don't get me started on the FAIL of NOP post-trade with Boogie and Brow. The "greatness" of Boogie enabled Nuggets and Blazers to destroy NOP in race for the 8th seed. No contest! In fact, NOP were often more impressive in games in which Boogie was out. How is that possible? Boogie and Brow on floor was net negative compared to Brow on floor with mish mash of D-leaguers. These are the facts. Not my opinion. You can disagree. But you are not disagreeing against opinion, you are disagreeing against facts. Good luck with that. :cool:
 
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#81
Willie went from struggling underachiever and borderline bust to brand new player in the last 20 games after Boogie exile. Skal went from DNP-CD to a guy with star potential. Why does it take Boogie being off the team for other guys to show what they can do? Why does this guy have to suck so much oxygen and potential off the team?
This is a ridiculous statement, top to bottom. It takes Boogie being off the team for other guys to show their stuff because it opened up 35 minutes between the PF and C positions. WCS averaged 13mpg before Cousins, 31mpg after. Skal averaged 6.5mpg in only 8 games before Cousins, 22mpg and played every game thereafter.

When we played against Boogie, he completely wiped the floor with our guys almost to the point where he was just toying with them. The only way he was holding these guys back was by being 10x better than any of them while taking up the majority of the minutes.
 
#83
This is a ridiculous statement, top to bottom. It takes Boogie being off the team for other guys to show their stuff because it opened up 35 minutes between the PF and C positions. WCS averaged 13mpg before Cousins, 31mpg after. Skal averaged 6.5mpg in only 8 games before Cousins, 22mpg and played every game thereafter.

When we played against Boogie, he completely wiped the floor with our guys almost to the point where he was just toying with them. The only way he was holding these guys back was by being 10x better than any of them while taking up the majority of the minutes.
Not to mention that the direction of the team changed from trying to make the play offs to developing youngsters but there is no point as someone obviously

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#84
Could that be because they switched from evaluating LaVine as a prospect to projecting how teams were evaluating him?
Yup. But thats what gets me, they'll float their opinions for years about a prospect, (When LaVine first scored 20 pts vs Nevada early in the season he was ranked #72 in their FR. ranking and listed at 6'3" IIRC) but for the sake of accuracy they'll forsake their personal opinions because they wish to maintain the "most accurate mocks" on the internet claim, so it ends up being more of a reflection of their perception of the consensus(including insider info), rather than Givony's personal opinion... and that change often occurs very late in the process.

In the case of Terry Rozier they stuck to their guns, even after poking fun at Rozier's twitter comments about mocks, and then the Celtics proved them wrong (I thought Rozier was 1st rd material fwiw). Tim Hardaway Jr was another one that was buried in the mid 2nd who, to me, was clearly 1st rd grade (better than Reggie Bullock and Sergey Karasev).. I understand why they do it, it's just inconsistent IMO. I never really thought Trey Burke or Stauskas were better prospects than Timmy, who many thought was gimmicky(The common refrain was TH Jr can shoot, he's got a crossover and he can get out in transition real fast and not much else)
 
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#86
Yup. But thats what gets me, they'll float their opinions for years about a prospect, (When LaVine first scored 20 pts vs Nevada early in the season he was ranked #72 in their FR. ranking and listed at 6'3" IIRC) but for the sake of accuracy they'll forsake their personal opinions because they wish to maintain the "most accurate mocks" on the internet claim, so it ends up being more of a reflection of their perception of the consensus(including insider info), rather than Givony's personal opinion... and that change often occurs very late in the process.

In the case of Terry Rozier they stuck to their guns, even after poking fun at Rozier's twitter comments about mocks, and then the Celtics proved them wrong (I thought Rozier was 1st rd material fwiw). Tim Hardaway Jr was another one that was buried in the mid 2nd who, to me, was clearly 1st rd grade (better than Reggie Bullock and Sergey Karasev).. I understand why they do it, it's just inconsistent IMO. I never really thought Trey Burke or Stauskas were better prospects than Timmy, who many thought was gimmicky(The common refrain was TH Jr can shoot, he's got a crossover and he can get out in transition real fast and not much else)
Well, I see providing a big board and mock draft as two different things, so I guess it doesn't' bother me as much. Once they start taking team needs into account and trying to project the picks based on their intel (which is, after all, the point of a mock draft) they still maintain a separate big board, I believe.
 
#87
Man I hate injuries to young players, Its like I don't even want to consider what could be a real good player if they have ACL issues at such a young age. This includes Dennis Smith who watch, will be our pick.
I feel like with the fire power of Buddy and Bogdan, and potentially Smith, I want that defensive first SF. Anunoby, could be that player but if so I would first see if Detroit wants to move up from 12 to 10 and throw in Stanley. Anunoby will still be there at 12 and Stanley is increased insurance that we will get at least one decent young defensive SF out of this draft.
 

kingsboi

Hall of Famer
#88
Man I hate injuries to young players, Its like I don't even want to consider what could be a real good player if they have ACL issues at such a young age. This includes Dennis Smith who watch, will be our pick.
I feel like with the fire power of Buddy and Bogdan, and potentially Smith, I want that defensive first SF. Anunoby, could be that player but if so I would first see if Detroit wants to move up from 12 to 10 and throw in Stanley. Anunoby will still be there at 12 and Stanley is increased insurance that we will get at least one decent young defensive SF out of this draft.
isn't Stanley Johnson a clone to OG almost?
 
#90
i justi just read Ham's article about the Kings getting respect from agents/players. It's a positive and a step in the right direction that an agency that represents some picks most likely going 10-20 will have their clients here, as well as Josh Jacksons agent giving love. But, we are still a little off the path IMO. A normal team, picking 5, can just grab guys like Smith, Isaac, Tatum etc, no problem. It shouldn't even be an issue. Where as I'd like to see who comes