Now that we know the draft order, who do we draft? (New thread)

bajaden

Hall of Famer
What are the chances that Kings trade up with PHX where the framework (read not the actual deal) involves upgrading pick 10 to 4 and taking on Knight's contract and trading Afflalo to them so they can waive him. There would obviously have to be more to the deal but Kings could do really well with two top 5 picks!
What the chances are of that I don't know, but I'd certainly offer that deal to the Sun's. I know they want to unload Knight, but how desperate they are, I don't know. They may want to get back a low salaried young player in return. Such as a Malachi.
 

bajaden

Hall of Famer
I think you are missing the point. In fact, you may be making my point and we may well agree. Tyreke was chosen in part over Curry because of a one on workout that distorted an accurate perception of him vis a vis Tyreke. The point is that these workouts don't in any way measure or evaluate BBIQ or how a guy affects the 5 on 5 game. Ball's measurable talents will therefore be skewed downward by such a workout. (Therefore, I'm all for Ball being in the workouts so he can slip down to #5).

I think the best thing about these workouts is the ability to talk to these players and see what their maturity level is, their work ethic, commitment to basketball, intelligence, and whether they have their head on straight. I know it's just anecdotal evidence, but it sure is my impression that players who come across as very immature in public seem to extend that to the basketball floor and don't do well, e.g McLemore. (The contrary doesn't work out as well: maturity doesn't seem to necessarily indicate success, e.g. Jimmer).
I think by the time you get to the workouts, you already know about a players BBIQ. That's what you have a scouting staff for. They've seen these players play all year long. In that particular workout, and like you, I was a big Tyreke fan at the time, it was more about what Curry could do against a bigger stronger player. If anyone remembers, at the time, Curry's athleticism and strength were being questioned. No one doubted his shooting or passing ability. However, there were many that doubted his body would stand up against the day to day rigors of the NBA.
 

bajaden

Hall of Famer
Just browsed NBAdraft.net's Mock..

What do you guys think of this result.

1. Fultz
2. Ball
3. Jackson
4. Fox
5. Tatum
6. Isaac
7.DSJ
8. Monk
9.Collins
10.Frank


If we could get Tatum and Frank... That would be an A+ draft from my standpoint.
Don't want to pop any balloons, but the Mav's who pick right in front of us at 9, have scouted Ntilikina more than any team in the NBA. They're not doing that to waste their time. I seriously doubt he'll be there at 10.
 

bajaden

Hall of Famer
The only thing I worry about with him is how well his game transfers to the next level. He is very dependent on isolation jump shots to score, which is considered a bad possession in today's nba. He's also kind of slow so I worry about him keeping up with other small forwards. Obviously if Fox and Jackson are gone you have to take him, but I just worry about him being effective off of the ball.
Tatum isn't slow. He's a very good athlete, but most of all, he has very good lateral quickness along with good instincts on defense. He's not as athletic as Josh Jackson, but he's a good athlete. There isn't a scout out there that's brought up his athleticism as a problem. A slow, Iso only SF wouldn't be ranked as high as he is. He's a very good passer, and I know that because he passes the ball. He's not a ball stopper. He's capable of putting the ball on the floor and attacking the basket. He has no problem creating his own shot. Not sure what more anyone would want from him.

If I had to choose between him and Isaac, it would be a hard choice, but I think I'd have to go with Tatum. Mostly because I think he's more NBA ready than Isaac. But I think Isaac may have more upside than Tatum. Makes it a tough choice, but my gut says go with something that's more proven with potential, than something that may have more potential, but is less proven.
 
Tatum isn't slow. He's a very good athlete, but most of all, he has very good lateral quickness along with good instincts on defense. He's not as athletic as Josh Jackson, but he's a good athlete. There isn't a scout out there that's brought up his athleticism as a problem. A slow, Iso only SF wouldn't be ranked as high as he is. He's a very good passer, and I know that because he passes the ball. He's not a ball stopper. He's capable of putting the ball on the floor and attacking the basket. He has no problem creating his own shot. Not sure what more anyone would want from him.

If I had to choose between him and Isaac, it would be a hard choice, but I think I'd have to go with Tatum. Mostly because I think he's more NBA ready than Isaac. But I think Isaac may have more upside than Tatum. Makes it a tough choice, but my gut says go with something that's more proven with potential, than something that may have more potential, but is less proven.
Tatum has the same kind of athleticism that Paul Pierce had entering the league. Tatum is smooth rather than explosive, but he's quick enough to be effective and will surprise at times. But he did benefit from mostly going up against slower guys in college and had some trouble

My feeling with Isaac is that he may have less bust potential than Tatum. At the very least I think he becomes a 3&D wing who offers some positions and defensive flexibility. With Tatum it really depends on if he can be a high level scorer in the NBA. If he can't, he may be in trouble as he has a somewhat outdated game offensively and while good at a few things, doesn't really have another NBA level skill to fall back on.
 
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Kingster

Hall of Famer
I think by the time you get to the workouts, you already know about a players BBIQ. That's what you have a scouting staff for. They've seen these players play all year long. In that particular workout, and like you, I was a big Tyreke fan at the time, it was more about what Curry could do against a bigger stronger player. If anyone remembers, at the time, Curry's athleticism and strength were being questioned. No one doubted his shooting or passing ability. However, there were many that doubted his body would stand up against the day to day rigors of the NBA.
Yes, you should. But maybe the last impression of the workout is the one that tips the evaluation, as in Tyreke over Curry, when it in fact it should not.
 
Same here, but do you expect Isaac to take maybe up to 2 years to shine?

I don't expect much in his rookie season.
I really like Isaac but I don't necessarily see star potential. What I see is a very long defender with good lateral quickness, a good rebounder despite the slight frame, a very good rim protector and a guy with a good shot who can be a consistent outside threat in time.

Given his tools, his solid ballhandling for his size and the flashes he shows he could turn out to be much more but I like what I see as his floor.

Like any rookie he'll need time to become a good defender but I don't think he's much further away than most other top prospects in terms of being able to contribute.

Guys like Ntilikina (who I also like) and Giles seem like they will take more time. Jonathan Jeanne is the guy in this draft who looks 2 years away from being 2 years away.
 
What the chances are of that I don't know, but I'd certainly offer that deal to the Sun's. I know they want to unload Knight, but how desperate they are, I don't know. They may want to get back a low salaried young player in return. Such as a Malachi.
I think they'd ask for #10, Hield and Afflalo (so they can waive him) for #4 and Knight.
 
I think they'd ask for #10, Hield and Afflalo (so they can waive him) for #4 and Knight.
oh, I'd think about that quite a bit. Love what Buddy showed us, but we're so deep at SG already with 2 good prospects behind him. Still doesn't seem like a good fit as Buddy and Booker are similarish kind of players. But if we had that offer, getting to walk from this draft with Fox-Tatum/Jackson is mega-appealing.

Fox
Bogdan || Malachi
Tatum
Skal
WCS || Papa

In theory, that's an awesome squad. Get some shooting/swing guys off the bench (Simmons anyone?) and we'd be back in the playoff hunt in a couple years.

Think you could make this offer to Philly to at 3 if they like Buddy enough. Perfect guy to pair with their playmakers.
 
oh, I'd think about that quite a bit. Love what Buddy showed us, but we're so deep at SG already with 2 good prospects behind him. Still doesn't seem like a good fit as Buddy and Booker are similarish kind of players. But if we had that offer, getting to walk from this draft with Fox-Tatum/Jackson is mega-appealing.

Fox
Bogdan || Malachi
Tatum
Skal
WCS || Papa

In theory, that's an awesome squad. Get some shooting/swing guys off the bench (Simmons anyone?) and we'd be back in the playoff hunt in a couple years.

Think you could make this offer to Philly to at 3 if they like Buddy enough. Perfect guy to pair with their playmakers.
Come on guys, the Kings are not going to trade Buddy.

The Kings will stand pat and take BPA at #5 (either Fox, Tatum or Jackson).

At #10, they will take BPA or trade down, which I think is likely.

I still think that Vlade will try to trade down at #10 to #12-16 area and pick up a future 1st (2019) and/or a possible player with upside, like Cameron Payne.
 
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bajaden

Hall of Famer
I wanted Cauley-Stein, Cousins and Kevin Martin. Outside of those three draft picks the Kings have never drafted the guy(s) I wanted.

I still remember yelling at the TV when they passed on John Wallace for some guy from Greece I'd never heard of . . .
Wow, a trip down memory lane. Let me see. I didn't have Martin on my radar. Obviously I wanted Cauley-Stein. I wanted Cousins, Tyreke, Lillard, Leonard, I really liked Leonard. I had Klay Thompson on my list, and he turned out better than I thought. I did like McLemore that year, but it was a weak draft and I did have some reservations about him and I had McCollum on my list. I wanted Sean Elliot over Pervis Ellison. I was screaming at my TV for the Kings to pick Karl Malone over Joe Kleine. I wanted Kevin Johnson, who I loved over Kenny Smith, although he wasn't a bad choice.

Digging through my old notes here. I had Bobby Hurley, Allan Houston, and George Lynch on my list in that draft. I had Jalen Rose, and ouch, Yinka Dare on my list. I had Bob Sura and Michael Finley over Corliss. The year we drafted Peja, who I had never heard of. I wanted Kobe, based solely on rumors out of LA, and the Kings front office, or Steve Nash or Ilgauskas, who Peja apparently destroyed in an individual workout. I prayed that the Kings didn't draft John Wallace.

I desperately wanted Tracy McGrady to slide to us and he almost did. I had no idea who Olivier Saint-Jean was. I had both Vince Carter and Jason Williams on my list, and sadly, I was in love with Michael Olowokandi, who went number one in that draft. I had never heard of Hedo Turkoglu, and wanted Jamal Crawford, who I loved, but knew he would probably be gone before we picked. My choice that year was Deshawn Stevenson. I wanted Jason Thompson in what was a weak draft.

Finally, I had Joakim Noah at the top of my list, and Spencer Hawes second. We almost got him. I won't even mention Quincy Douby, wait, I just did. In fairness to Petrie, that was a very weak draft to be drafting that low. Unfortunaely for Petrie, one of his biggest steals went and killed himself. One can only wonder how good Ricky Berry might have been. More recently, I did have Nik Stauskas as my choice. Still haven't given up on him. Come on Nik, don't make me look bad.
 
oh, I'd think about that quite a bit. Love what Buddy showed us, but we're so deep at SG already with 2 good prospects behind him. Still doesn't seem like a good fit as Buddy and Booker are similarish kind of players. But if we had that offer, getting to walk from this draft with Fox-Tatum/Jackson is mega-appealing.

Fox
Bogdan || Malachi
Tatum
Skal
WCS || Papa

In theory, that's an awesome squad. Get some shooting/swing guys off the bench (Simmons anyone?) and we'd be back in the playoff hunt in a couple years.

Think you could make this offer to Philly to at 3 if they like Buddy enough. Perfect guy to pair with their playmakers.
Unless of course Fox goes #3 to Philly but we're probably not making the deal if Fox is gone and the Suns are probably not making the deal if Jackson is there. Hell, the Suns are probably not doing the deal if it's Hield considering they have Booker (like you already mentioned).
 
For me it's trading WCS up in a deal to Minnesota who would do that in a heartbeat. But you know my opinion on WCS (which is the minority, I admit). Where Tatum and one of the PGs are available at 7
 

bajaden

Hall of Famer
oh, I'd think about that quite a bit. Love what Buddy showed us, but we're so deep at SG already with 2 good prospects behind him. Still doesn't seem like a good fit as Buddy and Booker are similarish kind of players. But if we had that offer, getting to walk from this draft with Fox-Tatum/Jackson is mega-appealing.

Fox
Bogdan || Malachi
Tatum
Skal
WCS || Papa

In theory, that's an awesome squad. Get some shooting/swing guys off the bench (Simmons anyone?) and we'd be back in the playoff hunt in a couple years.

Think you could make this offer to Philly to at 3 if they like Buddy enough. Perfect guy to pair with their playmakers.
Ahhhh no! Not including Buddy in that deal. Of all the young SG's that we have, the one I feel the most confident about is Buddy, so I'm not trading him away and hope one of the other SG's steps up. The idea right now, is to find, acquire. and keep all the young talent. Not find, acquire, and trade that talent. Buddy not only looks like a legit player and starter in the NBA, but he also looks like he fits what the Kings are trying to do. That's the kind of player you keep. Malachi, I would be willing to trade. He's proven nothing yet. Bogdanovic has proven he can play, and be a star in a man's league that's the next best basketball league in the world. That's good enough for me. So I'm not trading him either, unless its part of a deal to get an Otto Porter, or someone of equal ilk.
 
oh, I'd think about that quite a bit. Love what Buddy showed us, but we're so deep at SG already with 2 good prospects behind him. Still doesn't seem like a good fit as Buddy and Booker are similarish kind of players. But if we had that offer, getting to walk from this draft with Fox-Tatum/Jackson is mega-appealing.

Fox
Bogdan || Malachi
Tatum
Skal
WCS || Papa

In theory, that's an awesome squad. Get some shooting/swing guys off the bench (Simmons anyone?) and we'd be back in the playoff hunt in a couple years.

Think you could make this offer to Philly to at 3 if they like Buddy enough. Perfect guy to pair with their playmakers.
Yeah, the deal with Phoenix doesn't make a ton of sense. They need a SF or possibly a top flight PG if they want to move on from Bledsoe/Knight and the Kings can't give them either. Value wise it makes some sense but I think they are better off just taking Tatum or Jackson.

I don't see Philly wanting to drop to 10. Maybe if they got Hield and Monk or Markkanen were still on the board but I don't know.

I think it's more likely that Philly might want to move to five. They'd likely ask for #5 along with either Hield or #10.

I wouldn't throw in Hield either way but I would trade #5 & #10 if Ball slipped to #3. But in that case I think the Sixers just take Ball and walk away happy.
 
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Ahhhh no! Not including Buddy in that deal. Of all the young SG's that we have, the one I feel the most confident about is Buddy, so I'm not trading him away and hope one of the other SG's steps up. The idea right now, is to find, acquire. and keep all the young talent. Not find, acquire, and trade that talent. Buddy not only looks like a legit player and starter in the NBA, but he also looks like he fits what the Kings are trying to do. That's the kind of player you keep. Malachi, I would be willing to trade. He's proven nothing yet. Bogdanovic has proven he can play, and be a star in a man's league that's the next best basketball league in the world. That's good enough for me. So I'm not trading him either, unless its part of a deal to get an Otto Porter, or someone of equal ilk.
We shouldn't trade any of our shooting guards. None of them are proven besides Temple but they all look promising.
I think Fox could end up being the best player in the draft.. Sadly, I think he'll end up going higher than people think.
He could go as high as 2.
 
From what I have read the Suns FO really wanted Ball or Jackson/ a SF if Ball is gone.

I hope we are very cautious about what we throw in for potential moving up scenarios. Nothing is certain with regards to the guys getting drafted or a lot of the guys we have already.
 

SLAB

Hall of Famer
My heart is on Fox, which likely means we're getting someone else.

I'd love this offseason to keep proving me wrong though!
(I was also 1000% sure we were "beating" the odds by getting only 1 low top-10 pick a few days ago :p)
 
Is it legal to give up swaps in back to back years

If we took Tatum at 5 and one of DSJ/Fox dropped to Orlando/Minnesota, I wonder if one of them would take our 10/2018 swap to move up. DSJ/Hield/Tatum/Skal/Papa or WCS (if management didn't want to move anyone of importance). I'm thinking Minny could do this if Orlando took their choice of Markannen/Isaac for instance)

Given our situation this would be dangerous
 
I think Fox could end up being the best player in the draft.. Sadly, I think he'll end up going higher than people think.
Agree. I can see Fox going #2, #3 or #4. I can talk myself into Magic taking Ball for the "Showtime Factor" and hometown connection, in fact I did in a recent post, but I think that Magic is immune to public pressure and if he feels like he needs to go against popular consensus he has strength of his conviction to do so. One one hand it is fair to say Lakers are loaded with scorers (D'Angelo, Randle, Ingraham) and are going to try to add two more next summer (Boogie, George) and a set-up man like Ball can best keep all these guys happy. One the other hand Fox may project as the better player. I know if I was Magic what I would do, and the satisfaction I would get to see the look on the Dad's face when his son's name is not called.
 
Come on guys, the Kings are not going to trade Buddy.

The Kings will stand pat and take BPA at #5 (either Fox, Tatum or Jackson).

At #10, they will take BPA or trade down, which I think is likely.

I still think that Vlade will try to trade down at #10 to #12-16 area and pick up a future 1st (2019) and/or a possible player with upside, like Cameron Payne.
I really really like the idea of trading back into the 2019 first round using this year's #10. That way you basically can roll out these kids next year: Fox/Heild/Bogdan/Malachi/Skal/WCS/Paps - tank to all hell, and then re-assess. Where will yet another young blue-chipper get minutes anyway with those 7 kids and some mentor minutes for Temple/Ty? I think I want to find out how good those 7 guys are before I throw Markkanen etc into the mix.
 
Who do you want this year? Anybody who had Curry over Evans has my attention (I didn't).
I shall explain:
That was from principally watching Curry at Davidson I recall solely in the 2008 NCAA tournament. My Uncle graduated from Davidson long ago and made a big deal of it, and that's the only reason I saw Curry in 2 or 3 games. In fairness, I did not follow that particular draft closely then, as I did not look at Evans or other players. I recall hoping the Kings go after Curry based from watching Davidson (and him) closely the tournament, and was annoyed with them for not picking Curry at the time. I had no idea (and didn't expect) Curry would become a top player, but I remember - loved his dribbling ability and confidence in his shot in the tournament. I thought he could be kind of like a newer Jason Williams lightening bolt for the organization. After I saw Evans play well his rookie year I dismissed not getting Curry. But that was sort of happenstance sentiment.

I didn't watch too much of the tournament this year....just UCD getting clobbered by Kansas, and bits and pieces of a few other games.
I dont make time or watch much College. I do like Jackson alot, and would be fine with the Kings picking him instead of a PG. He seemed like a very smooth player and athlete - reminds me of Trevor Ariza.

So sorry to disappoint you, I'm no guru - just happened to catch a great player in College at the right time. I was onboard Kings for Robinson as I thought he looked great in the Kansas NCAA tournament losing effort final against Kentucky but that didn't pan out. I remember being happy the Kings didn't pick Harrison Barnes the same draft, and was pretty wrong on that one too. I liked Kemba Walker after catching a SDSU loss vs UConn in the tournment. Never thought Kahwi Leonard would be a top player - maybe a journeyman. I liked the Cauley Stein pickup, and I liked Buddy Hield last year.

Going off highlights is difficult. Every player looks good in highlights. I remember watching highlights of Quincy Douby and thinking, he looks ok. Its a crap-shoot.

This year I hope for Fox/Smith Jr but probably Jackson most....and that they resign Lawson. I think they should hold onto Hield and WCS and to a bit lesser degree Skal. I liked the strides Papa made and admit to being fairly wrong on him. I gave up on the idea of Jackson based on their projected draft order. I wouldn't be upset if they moved up to try to get him, but maybe not with both picks.
 
The only thing I worry about with him is how well his game transfers to the next level. He is very dependent on isolation jump shots to score, which is considered a bad possession in today's nba. He's also kind of slow so I worry about him keeping up with other small forwards. Obviously if Fox and Jackson are gone you have to take him, but I just worry about him being effective off of the ball.
I'd take Smith Jr before Tatum.