[Game] Kings v. Jazz - 3/5/17 - 3PT/6ET
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Joerger wanted this game so badly that he forgot that our objective was to "try to win while developing the youth." Of the non-veterans, only WCS got any real burn in this game. Although the rate at which Buddy was giving up the ball would have forced any coach to bench him for fear that we'd be accused of throwing the game!
I'm not trying to be a jerk, but is "try to win while developing the youth" an objective that management actually stated? And assuming it is, playing the youth big minutes in games is not the only way to focus on development this year.
I get the benefit of losing games to maximize our draft positioning, but it's not like we are trotting a highly skilled group of vets out there that. They may give us the best chance of winning, but this is likely not a 25 win team out there regardless of whether the vets or rooks play. We have such a convoluted and messy set of odds with our picks this year (keep it under the 10th worst record, but not that bad so we embarrass ourselves by swapping with the sixers.....hope the pelecans sink in the standings to maximize our value from the trade, but not too bad so they potentially end up top 3). I say F it. Me cheering for losses and getting all worked up when they win is not going to influence anything. The chips will fall where they may. Regardless of what we do, we will in the end be subject to ridicule simply by the fate of some ping pong balls that get pulled from a hopper.
I get the benefit of losing games to maximize our draft positioning, but it's not like we are trotting a highly skilled group of vets out there that. They may give us the best chance of winning, but this is likely not a 25 win team out there regardless of whether the vets or rooks play. We have such a convoluted and messy set of odds with our picks this year (keep it under the 10th worst record, but not that bad so we embarrass ourselves by swapping with the sixers.....hope the pelecans sink in the standings to maximize our value from the trade, but not too bad so they potentially end up top 3). I say F it. Me cheering for losses and getting all worked up when they win is not going to influence anything. The chips will fall where they may. Regardless of what we do, we will in the end be subject to ridicule simply by the fate of some ping pong balls that get pulled from a hopper.
I don't care about the number of minutes the kids get. I care about the quality of experience they get and the lessons they learn. I think one of the things the Kings have done right this year is make excellent use of the D-League. I also trust Joerger's judgment on whether or not he should be tossing rooks out there against the starters of the other team.
It's my job to be a fan. I'm going to root for the now and let the future unfold as it might. This arguing about how many minutes various rookies get is just too exhausting.
It's my job to be a fan. I'm going to root for the now and let the future unfold as it might. This arguing about how many minutes various rookies get is just too exhausting.
I know it is a common perception that Coach Joerger has a Vetish and it seems counter productive to the growth of the youth.
However I give him benefit of the doubt. If you want your system run a specific way and a vet has it down pat you can tell the rookie " Watch how player X does it. You do it that way you will get the minutes."
Just one example without getting into playoffs, tanking, wins or losses, of how there could be a lot of reasons why a youngblood did'nt see more time.
Coach put in the time thru the ranks with developing players and signs with WCS and even Ben indicate his methods are successful .
However I give him benefit of the doubt. If you want your system run a specific way and a vet has it down pat you can tell the rookie " Watch how player X does it. You do it that way you will get the minutes."
Just one example without getting into playoffs, tanking, wins or losses, of how there could be a lot of reasons why a youngblood did'nt see more time.
Coach put in the time thru the ranks with developing players and signs with WCS and even Ben indicate his methods are successful .
No chance you watched the game and said with a straight face "Skal would have helped us win". Based off recent history and looking at the box score you can say that - but if you watched with your eyes the game tonight.. how would you conclude "Skal would have helped us win"? Skal was a bowling pin tonight.
Yep.
Carmichael DaveVerified account@CarmichaelDave 4h4 hours ago
Much like against Lopez the other night, Gobert would've abused Skal. Part of a Coach's job in development is playing psychologist.
Carmichael DaveVerified account@CarmichaelDave 4h4 hours ago
Much like against Lopez the other night, Gobert would've abused Skal. Part of a Coach's job in development is playing psychologist.
I disagree. It's either a bad call or a bad rule. The reasons why is steelevt's post below.
This is exactly right. And it makes no sense. Hill's shot was on the downward arc and was going to hit the front of the rim but Gobert interfered with it before it could do so. Had a Kings defender done the same thing Gobert did -- despite the fact that it wasn't going in the basket -- it would have been ruled a defensive goal tend just like the Cousins' play you are referring to.
So as I said above, it's either a bad call or a bad rule. The offensive player shouldn't be allow to interfere with a shot on it's downward arc that is clearly going to hit rim.
And let's not fail to mention that Gobert was in the key a full 4 seconds before Hill's shot even went up. That shot shouldn't have counted in multiple ways. And almost as bad, the game was only in OT to begin with because the refs can't count to 5 consistently. Utah got every gift imaginable today.
This is exactly right. And it makes no sense. Hill's shot was on the downward arc and was going to hit the front of the rim but Gobert interfered with it before it could do so. Had a Kings defender done the same thing Gobert did -- despite the fact that it wasn't going in the basket -- it would have been ruled a defensive goal tend just like the Cousins' play you are referring to.
So as I said above, it's either a bad call or a bad rule. The offensive player shouldn't be allow to interfere with a shot on it's downward arc that is clearly going to hit rim.
And let's not fail to mention that Gobert was in the key a full 4 seconds before Hill's shot even went up. That shot shouldn't have counted in multiple ways. And almost as bad, the game was only in OT to begin with because the refs can't count to 5 consistently. Utah got every gift imaginable today.
if it is not then it is another example of how inept our front office is. If you trade away your best player for draft picks then it is a sign of rebuilding. if your draft pick is dependent upon losing to keep it, and that pick is another piece to rebuilding, then you aim to keep the pick. now i dont condone or cheer for losing, but if you play your youngs and let them develop, win or lose it is good for your team. you win, it builds confidence. you lose, they learn and you keep your pick. playing vets that you might not intend to keep past next year is foolish. and to those who state fans dont want to see a tanking team, i bet those fans want to see WCS and buddy play more than tolliver and afflalo.
The point of us not being a 25 win team regardless of who plays should be the reason why the rooks get more playing time. if you are going to lose, let the young guys get experience. coach said so himself games like this are worth more than summerleague. so let you young guys get experience. sure you dont want skal going up against gobert or brook lopez, but why is he going up against centers in the first place? he did well at PF, so play him against a PF or second string PF or if you want to play him against a center so bad let him go up against a bench C.
The point of us not being a 25 win team regardless of who plays should be the reason why the rooks get more playing time. if you are going to lose, let the young guys get experience. coach said so himself games like this are worth more than summerleague. so let you young guys get experience. sure you dont want skal going up against gobert or brook lopez, but why is he going up against centers in the first place? he did well at PF, so play him against a PF or second string PF or if you want to play him against a center so bad let him go up against a bench C.
Skal started out the Nets game ugly as well but wound up finishing with a nice game since he was allotted the minutes. He didn't have to play against Gobert so I don't know why that's even an issue. Its Joergers job to match him up correctly. Honestly I didn't even think he was that bad anyway. He got called for a ticky tack foul that has no place in the game other than to give the refs job security. His other foul was on an odd possession where Favors lost the ball going up, then lurched forward as Skal was going in to put a hand in his face. If Favors releases the shot correctly, its just a regular shot attempt. Since he flubbed the ball, Skal got called for the foul. Just an unlucky play.
No, of course management has not stated that. I stated it (and will continue to re-state it from time to time) because I think that's what they should be doing. Feel free to disagree, but as someone who played competitive sports, the whole notion of tanking is just "wrong" to me. The closest I can get to being on board with tanking is to play the young guys more and the veterans less, but not to the point of setting the young guys up to fail and creating a losing culture. Joerger did an interview recently in which he said as much. But, of course, when push comes to shove, he still prefers to put the game in the hands of his veterans.
Great game! We looked like the better team for three quarters of the game. Our young guys need to learn how to finish. When Hield gets better at protecting the ball he will be good. All the complaining about the trade around here is going to be wasted breath I suspect. I think we are already better. Keep coaching them up Jeorger!
Given our talent level this game was as good as we are able to play. We stepped on the gaspedal, played off of our guards and Utah had a lot of trouble dealing with it.
Most entertaining player in a Kings uni? For me it's Kosta Koufos - these floaters should make Ben jealous.
Buddy Hields decision making with the ball in his hands is not good. I honestly don't see a lot of Steph Curry in him. He has a very quick release, but that's pretty much it.
Coach Joerger is not on board with a full time youth movement.
2min for Skal and no minutes at all for Papa is disappointing. I understand, that coach doesn't want to give up on the season, but from a longterm pespective it just doesn't make a whole lot of sense to play Tolliver over Skal and Papa.
It hurts to see guys like KK and Temple rot on the Kings roster. They deserve better.
Most entertaining player in a Kings uni? For me it's Kosta Koufos - these floaters should make Ben jealous.
Buddy Hields decision making with the ball in his hands is not good. I honestly don't see a lot of Steph Curry in him. He has a very quick release, but that's pretty much it.
Coach Joerger is not on board with a full time youth movement.
2min for Skal and no minutes at all for Papa is disappointing. I understand, that coach doesn't want to give up on the season, but from a longterm pespective it just doesn't make a whole lot of sense to play Tolliver over Skal and Papa.
It hurts to see guys like KK and Temple rot on the Kings roster. They deserve better.