[Grades] Kings v. Nets 3/01/17

"Play" of the game?

  • Kings muster up effort in the last minute

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    35
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glassman

Guest
#92
Skal over the last 4 game per 33 mins would be avg 17 pts, 13.6 rebs pretty sure he's scoring pretty efficiently and also not turning over the ball much... plus he gets blocks too.... oh and he never gives up , argues and always hustles

super dave tho only likes playing him 15mins for now.
 
#93
That strikes me as entirely too convenient: what if the Kings are winning in four years for reasons that have nothing to do with the picks that they acquired from the Cousins trade? And what if they're still as bad as they are now? What if they're worse?

I kind of have a twofold objection to this line of thinking: first, as I think I've well established, I don't really believe in the "magic beans" draft gambit. And second, if it doesn't work (as I suspect that it won't), I don't have a high enough opinion of the proponents of this way of thinking to make the correlation between the trade, and the continued lack of success; I fully expect them to try and attribute the failure to something else. And, frankly, even if the Kings do become successful, are people really going to have the audacity to say that the trade worked out, if it takes another seven years?

That's why I feel like a timetable needs to be explicitly stated, whenever a blockbuster trade is made: I think that, when you trade a player with star talent, there should be a concrete window in which you are allowed to say that any post-trade success can reasonably be attributed to the trade itself. Mileage probably varies as to how many years that window should be, but I'm inclined to say no more than three.
What if the team treadmills for three more years, costing us our pick this year and assets, and a top pick next year, and the weight on Cousins frame starts giving him more (he's had tendinitis issues) pronounced foot problems and the team is into him a super max for three more years taking a large part of the cap?

Your close to disrespecting the views of people who don't think like you, and maybe you need to try to understand the reasons why the trade were made for your own sanity

It's a decision they could've been made either way
 

Mr. S£im Citrus

Doryphore of KingsFans.com
Staff member
#94
What if the team treadmills for three more years, costing us our pick this year and assets, and a top pick next year, and the weight on Cousins frame starts giving him more (he's had tendinitis issues) pronounced foot problems and the team is into him a super max for three more years taking a large part of the cap?
Well, like I said in the other thread, a sinkhole is definitely not a treadmill, so... mission accomplished, I guess.
 
#95
Skal over the last 4 game per 33 mins would be avg 17 pts, 13.6 rebs pretty sure he's scoring pretty efficiently and also not turning over the ball much... plus he gets blocks too.... oh and he never gives up , argues and always hustles

super dave tho only likes playing him 15mins for now.
I don't disagree with you really as I think Skal should play more too. With that said each of our rookies have looked better than I expected when they started getting playing time this year which leads me to believe that Coach Joerger has a good pulse on how to bring them along. I want to see more of them, but I've also been really impressed with the coaching staff and their player development thus far.
 

Glenn

Hall of Famer
#96
I actually do think that @mac thinks that, once the Kings acquire MacGuffin and Phlebotinum in the draft, with the picks that they got for Cousins, that they will ultimately be better in the long term than they ever would have been, had they kept Cousins.

I happen to think that he's loud wrong, but only time will tell.
It's possible.

I can't read any more of this thread. The whining is tiresome.

Answer two questions: 1) can anyone tell the difference between the play of a bad team and a team that is tanking? Just curious.

2) Also, presenting the result of the Boogie trade as just the team we have minus Boogie is absurd. The idea couldn't have been that we would get better in the first year by simply subtracting Boogie. It was predictable that we would be awful. The trade results are still in progress. Getting two picks from NO is meaningful especially when the Pels are playing very poorly and this draft class is strong. We could get a star unless NO slips to one of the top three picks. Also, as this trade markedly destroyed the team, it is far more likely than not that the Kings will get a very good draft pick. The second round pick may be inconsequential.

One last comment: if we should get the #1 pick and have to trade with Philly is not the end of the world. We still get Philly's pick which should be very good.




Addendum: I really dislike the trade. We will miss Boogie as big stars don't come around very often. This team seems to dislike skill.
 
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glassman

Guest
#97
I don't disagree with you really as I think Skal should play more too. With that said each of our rookies have looked better than I expected when they started getting playing time this year which leads me to believe that Coach Joerger has a good pulse on how to bring them along. I want to see more of them, but I've also been really impressed with the coaching staff and their player development thus far.
I completely disagree with you tho...

Here is a player that MAY have been helpful maybe 20 games ago? I have a hard time believing that "all of a sudden" he can impact the game for the Kings.... He never would have seen the floor if not garbage time or trading Cousins... Where was Temple while Affalo was horrible for way too long as the starting SG... then we all had to endure Ben being a total 0 for about 10+ games.....you wanna know how Temple finally got into the main fold...???..... injuries... Koufos has been totally useless against a lot of line ups and some teams that play fast and small... YET Dave continued to ROLL OUT the same crappy lineups no matter who or what was happening.... I think its pretty obvious Dave cost us at least 10 games due to his rotations.

10 games.... could you imagine if all of those bad starts with KK and Cousins had not happened... if maybe we had won those 10 games... Well cousins would still be here #1... Daves slow adjustments with rotations has been an epic FAIL.... I remain hopeful that Dave with "figure it out" eventually and not suck this bad forever but I have a strong feeling we will keep seeing Joerger play all these useless to our franchise vets over the foundation pieces the rest of the year... IF YOU HAVE TALENT DEVELOP IT!!!!! its not tanking !!! is developing talent!!!!!!!

I truly and getting behind Skal in so far limited mins...is showing signs of being something super special ... he's kinda a unicorn ... maybe not on the same level as Porzingis but close..... the height and set of tools ...plus motor, heart, and hustle... the touch the shot.... I mean he's grabbing rebounds at a rate Willie can't even dream about... its an "IT" factor....

yet our crappy coach played him 15 mins? over Evans, Affalo, Tolliver, Koufos? I'm sorry thats a crime .... Dave is a clown and I'm calling it right now that more and more people on here will be angered or fed up by him by the end of the year.... I really hope I'm wrong
 

Mr. S£im Citrus

Doryphore of KingsFans.com
Staff member
#98
Answer two questions: 1) can anyone tell the difference between the play of a bad team and a team that is tanking?
Effort.

2) Also, presenting the result of the Boogie trade as just the team we have minus Boogie is absurd. The idea couldn't have been that we would get better in the first year by simply subtracting Boogie. It was predictable that we would be awful. The trade results are still in progress. Getting two picks from NO is meaningful especially when the Pels are playing very poorly and this draft class is strong. We could get a star unless NO slips to one of the top three picks. Also, as this trade markedly destroyed the team, it is far more likely than not that the Kings will get a very good draft pick. The second round pick may be inconsequential.
I don't see a question in there, sir. But, I do have a question, pertaining to these comments, one that I have asked before: what is the statute of limitations on whether or not the trade worked? How many years down the road are Kings Fans allowed to attribute any future success to this trade? Sure, if the Kings are better two years from now, most reasonable people would have to stipulate that the trade was the reason, but what if the Kings aren't any better until four years from now? Seven years? Ten? How quick does the turnaround have to be in order for credit to be reasonably be given to the trade?
 
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Glenn

Hall of Famer
#99
.

I don't see a question in there, sir. But, I do have a question, pertaining to these comments, one that I have asked before: what is the statute of limitations on whether or not the trade worked? How many years down the road are Kings Fans allowed to attribute any future success to this trade? Sure, if the Kings are better two years from now, most reasonable people would have to stipulate that the trade was the reason, but what if the Kings aren't any better until four years from now? Seven years? Ten? How quick does the turnaround have to be in order for credit to be reasonably be given to the trade?
For me, I will not look at won/lost records. I think in a couple years we will have a very good idea of how the draft picks will develop. They won't be at any peak but their true colors will be shown. As an example, I think most people are happy with Skal and see a very good future for him. He is not an all star now and he is far from being great but I think most people here would be surprised if he doesn't eventually contribute substantially to the Kings.

We also need to watch Boogie. My personal prediction about Boogie is that he will improve. I think we will regret this move but what's new? On the other hand, he may continue to be a tech magnet. He doesn't seem to be interested in changing that aspect of his behavior. I personally am dumbfounded at his behavior this year. He seems to be daring the refs to call a tech by what he says and by his pushing and shoving. That's my guess and if I am right, why is he doing it?
 
I completely disagree with you tho...

Here is a player that MAY have been helpful maybe 20 games ago? I have a hard time believing that "all of a sudden" he can impact the game for the Kings.... He never would have seen the floor if not garbage time or trading Cousins... Where was Temple while Affalo was horrible for way too long as the starting SG... then we all had to endure Ben being a total 0 for about 10+ games.....you wanna know how Temple finally got into the main fold...???..... injuries... Koufos has been totally useless against a lot of line ups and some teams that play fast and small... YET Dave continued to ROLL OUT the same crappy lineups no matter who or what was happening.... I think its pretty obvious Dave cost us at least 10 games due to his rotations.

10 games.... could you imagine if all of those bad starts with KK and Cousins had not happened... if maybe we had won those 10 games... Well cousins would still be here #1... Daves slow adjustments with rotations has been an epic FAIL.... I remain hopeful that Dave with "figure it out" eventually and not suck this bad forever but I have a strong feeling we will keep seeing Joerger play all these useless to our franchise vets over the foundation pieces the rest of the year... IF YOU HAVE TALENT DEVELOP IT!!!!! its not tanking !!! is developing talent!!!!!!!

I truly and getting behind Skal in so far limited mins...is showing signs of being something super special ... he's kinda a unicorn ... maybe not on the same level as Porzingis but close..... the height and set of tools ...plus motor, heart, and hustle... the touch the shot.... I mean he's grabbing rebounds at a rate Willie can't even dream about... its an "IT" factor....

yet our crappy coach played him 15 mins? over Evans, Affalo, Tolliver, Koufos? I'm sorry thats a crime .... Dave is a clown and I'm calling it right now that more and more people on here will be angered or fed up by him by the end of the year.... I really hope I'm wrong
I'm not going to address everything you've said here because frankly a lot of it is opinion that you have every right to and it doesn't bother me that we differ.

Whatever the coaching staff is doing with Skal right now is working, I don't see any value in rushing to change it. Since Cousins was traded Skal went from bouncing back and forth from Reno to starting. I think he's coming along nicely. I also don't believe that developing talent means they have to play big minutes as soon as they show the slightest sign of NBA talent. Some guys need to be brought along slower than others.
 
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glassman

Guest
I'm not going to address everything you've said here because frankly a lot of it is opinion that you have every right to and it doesn't bother me that we differ.

Whatever the coaching staff is doing with Skal right now is working, I don't see any value in rushing to change it. Since Cousins was traded Skal went from bouncing back and forth from Reno to starting. I think he's coming along nicely. I also don't believe that developing talent means they have to play big minutes as soon as they show the slightest sign of NBA talent. Some guys need to be brought along slower than others.
well going by what your saying Wille needs to go to Reno to learn how to rebound and play defense at a higher level ....hahaha
 
Effort.

I don't see a question in there, sir. But, I do have a question, pertaining to these comments, one that I have asked before: what is the statute of limitations on whether or not the trade worked? How many years down the road are Kings Fans allowed to attribute any future success to this trade? Sure, if the Kings are better two years from now, most reasonable people would have to stipulate that the trade was the reason, but what if the Kings aren't any better until four years from now? Seven years? Ten? How quick does the turnaround have to be in order for credit to be reasonably be given to the trade?
No more than three. If there isn't progress by then, most likely any that happens later could be attributed to something else.
 

Mr. S£im Citrus

Doryphore of KingsFans.com
Staff member
... On the other hand, he may continue to be a tech magnet. He doesn't seem to be interested in changing that aspect of his behavior. I personally am dumbfounded at his behavior this year. He seems to be daring the refs to call a tech by what he says and by his pushing and shoving. That's my guess and if I am right, why is he doing it?
From my point of view, Cousins seems like a person whom has been involved in a "beef", and whom has been told by a representative of the other 'side' what it will take to "squash" the "beef," and whom is not particularly willing to accept those terms.

My best guess as to why is that he believes that he's never been given a fair shake, and has been 'wronged' by the refs since Day One (JSYK, I am not going to engage anyone in any discussions of whether or not this is true; I'm just saying what I think he believes). I think that Cousins considers himself to be a star in the league (a point of view that I agree with), and that he does not, nor has he ever, received the benefit of the doubt from the officials at a rate that is commensurate with other star players of his caliber (a point of view that I also tend to agree with). What I've seen of DeMarcus Cousins in seven years leads me to believe that he's the kind of young man that the only thing that would get him to lay off the refs is for the refs to stipulate publicly that they actually have been officiating him unfairly, and promise to to give him a clean slate moving forward, as long as he stops complaining.

I also can't see the refs doing that, under any kind of circumstances (whether or not they ought to is also a conversation that I refuse to engage in).
 
Joerger being pushed out or leaving would be a nightmare but Im hopeful that it does not come to that. His rotations and plays don't suggest a youth movement but again it may be for sake of lockerroom stability or him not wanting to throw the guys into the fire. Has he come out and been adament in his support for the recent moves?
Joerger is very hesitant about playing new guys who haven't had time in his system. He wants to be able to trust the guys on the floor to run what he wants to run. I expect that's why WCS was on the pine most of the year as he wasn't performing in practice what he wanted to see.

Regardless, these losses are exactly what we want. If we do this right, the 2019 unprotected pick won't hurt as much as people think. If we snag the 2 top 10 picks this year, and then predictably suck next year, this team should be plenty restocked with talent (and some experience) by 2019 not to send over a top 3 pick to the Sixers:

In 2019:

4 year player: WCS
3 year Players: Buddy-Skal-Malachi-Papa
2 year Players: 2 2017 top 10 rookies- Bogdan
Rookie: Very Likely top 5 2018 pick

IF Joerger is still on, thats enough talent to go hunting for an 8 seed. The rebuild can be quick, but we need to not screw it up this season by winning games.
 

dude12

Hall of Famer
Effort.

I don't see a question in there, sir. But, I do have a question, pertaining to these comments, one that I have asked before: what is the statute of limitations on whether or not the trade worked? How many years down the road are Kings Fans allowed to attribute any future success to this trade? Sure, if the Kings are better two years from now, most reasonable people would have to stipulate that the trade was the reason, but what if the Kings aren't any better until four years from now? Seven years? Ten? How quick does the turnaround have to be in order for credit to be reasonably be given to the trade?
2 years. Vlade put a timetable on it. And to be reasonable, there should be a clear path going forward after 2 years and not necessarily we are going to deep in the playoffs. But he put it out there.

The only way to speed up this process to a 2 year window is nailing draft picks and signing an all-star level player in FA. Doubt we sign anyone based on history. These high draft picks are not necessarily the answer either.....see Minnesota and see 76ers.
 
They way this works is that the Kings make a move that objectively looks bad at the time or least raises some major red flags.

Because they are die hard fans, a large contingent say "You don't know it's bad. It might not be bad at all. We have no way of knowing now. We just have to wait for ___."

Later, when it's clear the Kings screwed up, many of the same fans will say: "Look, the past is the past. You can dwell on it or be positive and get behind the new plan;" and/or "Yes, but that was ____'s fault. And I'm sure glad he isn't here anymore."

And the same stupid stuff keeps happening. That's the last 10 years. They just bought at least another 3. Yea!
 
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Your close to disrespecting the views of people who don't think like you, and maybe you need to try to understand the reasons why the trade were made for your own sanity
You're asking a sane person to try to understand insanity? Really??

In 4 short years, the ownership group and front office have made every mistake imaginable and still haven't shown that they've learned anything from the experience. It's clear by now that they don't think like most others. And anybody that stands behind their decision making despite the overwhelmingly poor track record is deserving of whatever perceived disrespect they receive, IMO.
 
Joerger is very hesitant about playing new guys who haven't had time in his system. He wants to be able to trust the guys on the floor to run what he wants to run. I expect that's why WCS was on the pine most of the year as he wasn't performing in practice what he wanted to see.

Regardless, these losses are exactly what we want. If we do this right, the 2019 unprotected pick won't hurt as much as people think. If we snag the 2 top 10 picks this year, and then predictably suck next year, this team should be plenty restocked with talent (and some experience) by 2019 not to send over a top 3 pick to the Sixers:

In 2019:

4 year player: WCS
3 year Players: Buddy-Skal-Malachi-Papa
2 year Players: 2 2017 top 10 rookies- Bogdan
Rookie: Very Likely top 5 2018 pick

IF Joerger is still on, thats enough talent to go hunting for an 8 seed. The rebuild can be quick, but we need to not screw it up this season by winning games.
Wow.
I like your optimism, and I wish you all the best with that.
I would use T-Pups as example of a team that is at the stage in their development where you see us being in 2019.
I would argue that if we even get close to the level of talent in 2019 that KAT/Dieng/LaVine/Wiggins are now we should be extremely lucky.

And T-Pups are worse than what we were 2 weeks ago.
 
Wow.
I like your optimism, and I wish you all the best with that.
I would use T-Pups as example of a team that is at the stage in their development where you see us being in 2019.
I would argue that if we even get close to the level of talent in 2019 that KAT/Dieng/LaVine/Wiggins are now we should be extremely lucky.

And T-Pups are worse than what we were 2 weeks ago.
In response to this and your previous reply, there's no way to judge how good we will actually be. Ultimately as a GM your first job is to put together a team that is good on paper. Everybody would agree that the wolves are not meeting expectations, but you can't look at them and say "oh they are failing so we will too". GS wasn't any good till they drafted Curry and then Klay and Green.

Vlade gave the 2 year timeline - I do not think we will be better in 2 years. But I do think that in 3 years we will have more potential than pre-trade Kings if we draft correctly. I'd be fine with your idea of a conference finals appearance, but I don't think that would happen as I don't see how we could have accumulated more talent without losing more games to get a high pick (Which could be used or traded).

To Slim's question - I'd say the trade shouls be judged on 3 years of higher picks and FA signings with more cap space, as well as any assets we move the remaining vets for.
 
In response to this and your previous reply, there's no way to judge how good we will actually be. Ultimately as a GM your first job is to put together a team that is good on paper. Everybody would agree that the wolves are not meeting expectations, but you can't look at them and say "oh they are failing so we will too". GS wasn't any good till they drafted Curry and then Klay and Green.

Vlade gave the 2 year timeline - I do not think we will be better in 2 years. But I do think that in 3 years we will have more potential than pre-trade Kings if we draft correctly. I'd be fine with your idea of a conference finals appearance, but I don't think that would happen as I don't see how we could have accumulated more talent without losing more games to get a high pick (Which could be used or traded).

To Slim's question - I'd say the trade shouls be judged on 3 years of higher picks and FA signings with more cap space, as well as any assets we move the remaining vets for.
Agree no certainty at all.
But there is a way to set up expectations based on the drafting history.

Sure, we will have 3 top 35 picks this year and one of the top picks the next year. We could end up with Curry/Klay/Green + IT2.
Realistic? No. Possible? Well we might end up with 4 LeBrons while we are at it.

The beauty of the "rebuild" is that you cannot be judged for certain how well you are doing for years. Job security and big luck dependence.

Vlade did a good job last draft so there is that going for us.
We could end up with player with talent like Cuz this draft. Or most probably not.

What is the most possible is that we will draft average and then in 2019 there will be a ton of folks going stating that trade was good and that we just did not draft correctly.

Btw, even before the trade we had Skal/Malachi/WCS and potentially Bogdan coming up. Just those guys improving we would be expected to reach playoff next year.
Even with maxing Cuz out we still had a ton of $ too.
With only one quality guy signing up (Doug Christie level) and getting this one season under the Joergers system we could talk about being close to the second tier playoff teams (Jazz, Clips, Memphis, Thunder).
Or not.
We will never find out.
 
Agree no certainty at all.
But there is a way to set up expectations based on the drafting history.

Sure, we will have 3 top 35 picks this year and one of the top picks the next year. We could end up with Curry/Klay/Green + IT2.
Realistic? No. Possible? Well we might end up with 4 LeBrons while we are at it.

The beauty of the "rebuild" is that you cannot be judged for certain how well you are doing for years. Job security and big luck dependence.

Vlade did a good job last draft so there is that going for us.
We could end up with player with talent like Cuz this draft. Or most probably not.

What is the most possible is that we will draft average and then in 2019 there will be a ton of folks going stating that trade was good and that we just did not draft correctly.

Btw, even before the trade we had Skal/Malachi/WCS and potentially Bogdan coming up. Just those guys improving we would be expected to reach playoff next year.
Even with maxing Cuz out we still had a ton of $ too.
With only one quality guy signing up (Doug Christie level) and getting this one season under the Joergers system we could talk about being close to the second tier playoff teams (Jazz, Clips, Memphis, Thunder).
Or not.
We will never find out.
And ultimately that's that :) so might as well move forward.
 
I completely disagree with you tho...

Here is a player that MAY have been helpful maybe 20 games ago? I have a hard time believing that "all of a sudden" he can impact the game for the Kings.... He never would have seen the floor if not garbage time or trading Cousins... Where was Temple while Affalo was horrible for way too long as the starting SG... then we all had to endure Ben being a total 0 for about 10+ games.....you wanna know how Temple finally got into the main fold...???..... injuries... Koufos has been totally useless against a lot of line ups and some teams that play fast and small... YET Dave continued to ROLL OUT the same crappy lineups no matter who or what was happening.... I think its pretty obvious Dave cost us at least 10 games due to his rotations.

10 games.... could you imagine if all of those bad starts with KK and Cousins had not happened... if maybe we had won those 10 games... Well cousins would still be here #1... Daves slow adjustments with rotations has been an epic FAIL.... I remain hopeful that Dave with "figure it out" eventually and not suck this bad forever but I have a strong feeling we will keep seeing Joerger play all these useless to our franchise vets over the foundation pieces the rest of the year... IF YOU HAVE TALENT DEVELOP IT!!!!! its not tanking !!! is developing talent!!!!!!!

I truly and getting behind Skal in so far limited mins...is showing signs of being something super special ... he's kinda a unicorn ... maybe not on the same level as Porzingis but close..... the height and set of tools ...plus motor, heart, and hustle... the touch the shot.... I mean he's grabbing rebounds at a rate Willie can't even dream about... its an "IT" factor....

yet our crappy coach played him 15 mins? over Evans, Affalo, Tolliver, Koufos? I'm sorry thats a crime .... Dave is a clown and I'm calling it right now that more and more people on here will be angered or fed up by him by the end of the year.... I really hope I'm wrong

I'm really excited about Skal too but I like how Dave is bringing him along. He is not your typical prospect he does not have a lot of 5 on 5 experience so it's best to bring him along slowly.

What I would like to see in his minutes would be a few pick and roll and pick and pops for him in the minutes he is getting. Maybe 8 to 10 touches. He is showing a lot of promise. The only skill I can easily identify that he is lacking in the mins so far is his ball toughness. Good news is he has a good handle so it's more of a experience, strength and aggression issue for him so time will help.
 

kingsboi

Hall of Famer
Well as I said it's all about probability. They have a clean slate building a winning team from scratch. They have 7 years of losing with DeMarcus. That's 7 years of ineptitude that you're counting on to magically turn into a winning team. If I need to place my faith somewhere it's going to the unknown rather than the known failure. Again, it's also about the situation, where I don't see a feasible way for the team to improve enough when we are winning around 35-40 wins a season. I was personally less inclined to trade Cousins once there was a higher likelihood that we would/could extend him, as that would buy us more time.

But beyond a simple matter of proven vs unproven, I am more inclined to believe that this FO will hopefully mess around less if they finally get to play the style that Vivek dreams of. We were never going to be a team that played the way the owner wanted with Cousins. That sucks, but it is what it is. As I've said, I also think it's just easier to win in today's league when your star is a guard rather than a big man with ref issues. Put it this way, the FO clearly didn't want to build around Cousins, so rather than extending him, having two more years of 8th seed appearances at best and hence lower draft picks, you bite the bullet now and at least have 2-3 years of assets to show for it. I am making a lot of assumptions about FAs and whatnot, but I think they are reasonable assumptions and no less likely than us finding the magic formula to becoming a good team without actually adding any high level talent. Even if Cousins goes on to actually make the playoffs it's not a reflection of what we could have done, because we couldn't have gotten Anthony Davis, or John Wall or whoever it is. At this point KingsfanGER will come in and say "what a lazy excuse, if you can't sign good FAs then your GM must be bad!", to which my response is, yeah, so do you want to fire the GM again or do you consider the hand that you're dealt and try to play your cards as best as you can?

We now have to turn our hopes to the draft. We have drafted some gems before, so we just have to hope that we will do so again. As Baja says, most of the top players were drafted, so we shouldn't be looking down on it. We've drafted Cousins, Tyreke, IT, Whiteside, and could have drafted Klay, Kawhi etc. Could have, as in we mechanically, feasibly could have done so, but simply chose not to (much to the FO's discredit). Meanwhile, what has free agency brought us?
Mikki Moore & Desmond Mason?
 
I think Joerger's MO is obvious and he has even spelled it out on some interviews but nobody talks about it much.

He's looking for a certain attitude - a certain grit. When a guy goes for an offensive board, you give him a hard shot in the ribs. You only have to do it the first time. That way, the next time there is a rebound opportunity the guy will say to himself "ya know, I think I'll get back on defense instead".

Matt did this. When Skal & Willie start doing this, they will play more. I feel like I've seen Joerger yank Skal when he sees him play like a marshmallow (which isn't all the time - but it's sometimes).

It's the Jack Tatum school of intimidation.
 
I think Joerger's MO is obvious and he has even spelled it out on some interviews but nobody talks about it much.

He's looking for a certain attitude - a certain grit. When a guy goes for an offensive board, you give him a hard shot in the ribs. You only have to do it the first time. That way, the next time there is a rebound opportunity the guy will say to himself "ya know, I think I'll get back on defense instead".

Matt did this. When Skal & Willie start doing this, they will play more. I feel like I've seen Joerger yank Skal when he sees him play like a marshmallow (which isn't all the time - but it's sometimes).

It's the Jack Tatum school of intimidation.
Ronnie Lott.






 

VF21

Super Moderator Emeritus
SME
I think Joerger's MO is obvious and he has even spelled it out on some interviews but nobody talks about it much.

He's looking for a certain attitude - a certain grit. When a guy goes for an offensive board, you give him a hard shot in the ribs. You only have to do it the first time. That way, the next time there is a rebound opportunity the guy will say to himself "ya know, I think I'll get back on defense instead".

Matt did this. When Skal & Willie start doing this, they will play more. I feel like I've seen Joerger yank Skal when he sees him play like a marshmallow (which isn't all the time - but it's sometimes).

It's the Jack Tatum school of intimidation.
I couldn't possibly agree more. Matt Barnes served a purpose on the Kings that is now sorely lacking. It's what Bricklayer called the "enforcer." The guy who would give the shot in the ribs, the hard foul that rocked a player back, as opposed to the matador defense we've had to put up with for so many years.

I saw on SI (I think) that Barnes is one of the top 5 late season acquisitions. I cannot even begin to describe how angry I am that we let him go so that GSW could grab him. If I DID believe in conspiracies, that right there is one personnel move I would hone in on.