Building around a Fox/Sabonis core
- Thread starter funkykingston
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I recall this as well (there being triggers for keeping Gentry if he makes PO). Does anyone remember what the deal was (i.e. for how long if Gentry makes the PO with this team)?
It may not be a disastrous thing. If things go off track, there is always Doug who may be able to jump in. He did a fine job when Gentry was out due to covid protocol.
It may not be a disastrous thing. If things go off track, there is always Doug who may be able to jump in. He did a fine job when Gentry was out due to covid protocol.
Another guy I'd strongly look at this summer is Malik Monk. He just turned 24 this year and has had a strong offensive break-out season. He's an UFA and there's virtually no chance the Lakers will have the cash to keep him. There's the obvious Fox connection with them being the starting guard line for Kentucky that year. He's proving to be an elite spacer (40.1% the last 2 seasons on 5 and 5.6 3PA/game) with some elite versatility on how he's getting those 3's in terms of C&S, and creating his own 3. What's nice is we're seeing him fit nicely next to to 2 studs on offense and still be a super effective shooter/scorer in doing so. And he's just that "microwave" scorer that the team doesn't have anymore. Impact metrics are a big fan of him on offense:
O-LEBRON: +0.5
O-Raptor: +1.6
LA-ORPM: +0.6
O-BPM: +0.5
Net Lakers Ortg (+7.7)
60% TS
19.3% USG
13.6% AST
He's a bad defender (eye test and metrics line this out), but I don't think that'll matter much since a majority of his time will be with guys like DDV, Mitchell, Holiday and Harkless with him on the wing. But he fills a lot of the holes those guys have as another secondary creator/ball-handler and shot creation/shooting that no one outside Fox/Barnes/Sabonis has.
O-LEBRON: +0.5
O-Raptor: +1.6
LA-ORPM: +0.6
O-BPM: +0.5
Net Lakers Ortg (+7.7)
60% TS
19.3% USG
13.6% AST
He's a bad defender (eye test and metrics line this out), but I don't think that'll matter much since a majority of his time will be with guys like DDV, Mitchell, Holiday and Harkless with him on the wing. But he fills a lot of the holes those guys have as another secondary creator/ball-handler and shot creation/shooting that no one outside Fox/Barnes/Sabonis has.
You would almost have to move Davis to add Monk no? If we end up starting Fox and DDV with back up minutes going to Davis and Off night, there wouldn't be many minutes for him. I actually think Davis is going to thrive with Sabonis, he was already heating up before the injury.
A guy I think would be worth looking at is Kessler Edwards. He has has some moments with the Nets this year and was known for defense coming out of college. He is a restricted free agent I believe that could be picked up for not a ton of cash
A guy I think would be worth looking at is Kessler Edwards. He has has some moments with the Nets this year and was known for defense coming out of college. He is a restricted free agent I believe that could be picked up for not a ton of cash
Yeah would assume moving on from Davis, but the appeal for me is a few things. I think you can interchangeably play Fox, DDV, Monk, Mitchell together, they're all still so young and already good (DDV 25, Mitchell 23, Monk 24, Fox 24) with conceivably more upside in them getting better, and Monk fills in the only glaring hole that you don't get with DDV, Fox, Mitchell with his elite spacing and shot creation ability. Monk is also a ridiculous athlete who's another guy that should have a lot of fun with off-ball movement and receiving passes from Sabonis.
Unfortunately with Finney-Smith off the market this summer, there's just not a great bigger wing market this year. The Martin bros are kind of the only guys I see that fit the bill in terms of already being good with some play upside still built in. Monk isn't perfect in terms of being a traditional wing, but he's good, young, fills a pretty big hole with the projected core and adds another build around piece we can lock in. The Kings still need another ball-handler/secondary playmaker type to fill out the team, so may as well come in the form of an elite shooter like Monk who can provide those attributes as well.
I like Holiday a ton too, but he's on the older side and only signed for one more season. T.Davis has had great moments, but he's only signed one more season. Harkless only signed one more season. So it's very likely most (if not all) the new acquisitions outside of Sabonis and DDV aren't long-term pieces for us.
Unfortunately with Finney-Smith off the market this summer, there's just not a great bigger wing market this year. The Martin bros are kind of the only guys I see that fit the bill in terms of already being good with some play upside still built in. Monk isn't perfect in terms of being a traditional wing, but he's good, young, fills a pretty big hole with the projected core and adds another build around piece we can lock in. The Kings still need another ball-handler/secondary playmaker type to fill out the team, so may as well come in the form of an elite shooter like Monk who can provide those attributes as well.
I like Holiday a ton too, but he's on the older side and only signed for one more season. T.Davis has had great moments, but he's only signed one more season. Harkless only signed one more season. So it's very likely most (if not all) the new acquisitions outside of Sabonis and DDV aren't long-term pieces for us.
It's a tough one but I am hoping you are right. They did say there were metrics in mind but early on there were leaks that said Gentry pushed hard to get the interim tag taken off and the team said no. By no means do I hope we kick him to the curb but he can't be the guy Monte had in mind when he took this job and I think he's been very consistent trying to build a team with a mix of what he started with, what he wanted (Defense + DDV and later Sabonis), and what he can get on the trade market within that mold. So he absolutely must have had a strong two way coach in mind and that's not exactly what Gentry was coming in, and we still could use some better schemes on defense.
I don't know what Dave's smoking with Stotts. He's not a bad coach but he's not a particularly great or inventive one. The Blazers teams he coached did overachieve but this was most likely Dame's doing. Since I'm sure Monte had a short list coming in and Stotts still had a job then, it would also really surprise me if that was the direction we went.
I don't know what Dave's smoking with Stotts. He's not a bad coach but he's not a particularly great or inventive one. The Blazers teams he coached did overachieve but this was most likely Dame's doing. Since I'm sure Monte had a short list coming in and Stotts still had a job then, it would also really surprise me if that was the direction we went.
Kendall Brown should absolutely be an option. I'm not absolutely deadset on getting a weak side shot blocking 4. I just think it's imperative we load up 2-4 with versatile, switchable guys who can play/defend multiple positions and knock down the 3. If we go into next year starting Harrison Barnes at the 4, I wouldn't consider that a bad thing. Who by the way is a FA at the end of next year so it's ultra important we load up on guys who can play multiple positions on the wing.
However, since Hali has been shipped out there should now be no more reservations about picking another guard in the draft. Bennedict Mathurin is on my radar if we stay in the 8-9 range. Explosive, 6'6" SG who can swing to the SF easily and guard multiple positions and has a burgeoning skillset as a shot creator.
I'm thinking Mathurin in the 7-9 range, Brown in the 10-12 range.
However, since Hali has been shipped out there should now be no more reservations about picking another guard in the draft. Bennedict Mathurin is on my radar if we stay in the 8-9 range. Explosive, 6'6" SG who can swing to the SF easily and guard multiple positions and has a burgeoning skillset as a shot creator.
I'm thinking Mathurin in the 7-9 range, Brown in the 10-12 range.
Here's a list of players that either can or have the potential to do the things we want out of a PF next to Sabonis (good defender, good rim protector, versatile defender, good shooter, good length, & good athleticism) while still being an age that somewhat fits with our core.
PG - Fox / Mitchell
SG - DiVincenzo / Davis
SF - Barnes / Holiday / Harkless
PF - Washington / Lyles / Metu
C - Sabonis / Len
Pick - SAC 1st / SAC 2nd / CHI 2nd
- I don't really see Pokusevski & I. Jackson being available as they are wanting in the middle of their rebuild and want to keep young talent.
- J. Jackson is not going anywhere as he's a big reason for Memphis success right now
- Isaac would likely cost a lot and wouldn't be worth the risk with his injuries
- Grant, Siakam, & Wood may be all had for the right price as all 3 of those teams may be looking for younger talent (maybe not Toronto though), but they are all a little older for my liking.
- That leaves Washington, McDaniels, P. Williams, & Roby. McDaniels & Williams would likely cost the most with them still having 2.5 years left on their contracts. Washington for Holmes seems like a fair swap and wouldn't cost us too much. And Roby may be available for a couple of 2nds since he only has 1.5 years left, is a UFA after his contract, and is 24 years old (OKC may prefer younger assets).
PG - Fox / Mitchell
SG - DiVincenzo / Davis
SF - Barnes / Holiday / Harkless
PF - Washington / Lyles / Metu
C - Sabonis / Len
Pick - SAC 1st / SAC 2nd / CHI 2nd
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The Pacers can't match a bigger contract offer for Smith if he balls out right? I thought if you declined a the rookie option, you can only re-up for what the valuation of the rookie contract is. So they'd be maxed out around $5mil?
So that'd seem like a pretty incredible dart throw type of deal to make. Bet like 4years/$30 mil that he can pop and you'd have bought out 2 of his RFA years (under normal circumstances) at an incredible value. You could live with that salary if he's a 3rd big back-up, but that seems like a pretty low-risk $ cost to getting a 21 year old that could be a potential long-term fit with Sabonis. I've always liked the player and skill-set, but his biggest crime was he was drafted in front of Hali and Vassell.
The rest of these guys just aren't available I don't think outside of PJ Washington. It's a rare archetype and teams aren't going to let them walk.
So that'd seem like a pretty incredible dart throw type of deal to make. Bet like 4years/$30 mil that he can pop and you'd have bought out 2 of his RFA years (under normal circumstances) at an incredible value. You could live with that salary if he's a 3rd big back-up, but that seems like a pretty low-risk $ cost to getting a 21 year old that could be a potential long-term fit with Sabonis. I've always liked the player and skill-set, but his biggest crime was he was drafted in front of Hali and Vassell.
The rest of these guys just aren't available I don't think outside of PJ Washington. It's a rare archetype and teams aren't going to let them walk.
Yeh I just don't see any of the guys we want being available at a price we can afford. The biggest swing would be Isaac. There are people that believe he would win a defensive player of the year some day and his contract is reasonable if he stays healthy. However, the injury risk is pretty high given his history and I don't think we have the assets to get a trade done. No way we trade multiple firsts for him and his culture fit might be questionable. I think we have to accept that Holmes is here to stay as our official Jr Uh OH or he will be traded for a middling piece. I think trading him for a young wing who shoots well from 3 and plays defense was a pipe dream in retrospect.
The draft will have to be the answer for us. Monte appears to like experienced college players who play defense and or are analytics friendly. Let's compose that list and figure out who Tinker Mcnair might be eyeing.
The draft will have to be the answer for us. Monte appears to like experienced college players who play defense and or are analytics friendly. Let's compose that list and figure out who Tinker Mcnair might be eyeing.
I actually edited my original post as I don't think Smith has the athleticism/quickness to be the PF we need next to Sabonis.
I would actually be interested in seeing what it would take to get Roby. He only has 1.5 years left, is a UFA after his contract, and is 24 years old (OKC may prefer younger assets). Wondering if a future 2nd is enough to get it done.
He's got the length and athletic profile we're looking for and has 3&D potential. 32.4% from 3, 40.0% from 16ft-3pt line, 37.5% from 10-16ft, and 74.6% from the free throw line suggests to me he has some shooting potential. He actually shoots 53.8% from the corner 3 (but he's only taken 26 of them in his career). Defensively, he averages 1.3 steals & 1.0 blocks per36 min and has the athleticism & length to be a good defender. Would be an interesting "buy low" candidate who may just flourish next to Sabonis.
I would actually be interested in seeing what it would take to get Roby. He only has 1.5 years left, is a UFA after his contract, and is 24 years old (OKC may prefer younger assets). Wondering if a future 2nd is enough to get it done.
He's got the length and athletic profile we're looking for and has 3&D potential. 32.4% from 3, 40.0% from 16ft-3pt line, 37.5% from 10-16ft, and 74.6% from the free throw line suggests to me he has some shooting potential. He actually shoots 53.8% from the corner 3 (but he's only taken 26 of them in his career). Defensively, he averages 1.3 steals & 1.0 blocks per36 min and has the athleticism & length to be a good defender. Would be an interesting "buy low" candidate who may just flourish next to Sabonis.
I have to assume Eason and Murray are guys he would have interest in. Trevion Williams out of Purdue is interesting in the second round. He is a senior and actually comes off the bench sometimes for the Boilermakers but every time I watch a game (I have watched a lot of Purdue thanks to my employee going to school there) he makes an impact. Can pass really well and makes some savvy plays.
I think I'd rather continue to develop Metu and see if you can get his shot to turn around. And he's actually really started to improve the efficiency the last 10 games (57% TS in 21.9 MPG) Impact metrics are actually pretty favorable towards Metu's defense being fairly good as a perimeter and interior defender as well an excellent defensive rebounder. Which I think lines up with what we see with the eye test.
I obviously haven't watched a ton of Roby, but there isn't much to suggest in the stat profile that makes him pop as an underrated breakout guy over his last 2 seasons being a rotation player.
I obviously haven't watched a ton of Roby, but there isn't much to suggest in the stat profile that makes him pop as an underrated breakout guy over his last 2 seasons being a rotation player.
This just might be the answer. We've been on team Boucher for years. It's not a perfect fit since you don't want Boucher chasing dudes around the perimeter and away from the rim all the time, but I think what's become pretty clear is you don't want Boucher handling the beefy bois inside. So it could be a pretty exciting defensive pairing with Boucher being able to cover Sabonis's lack of rim protection, but not have to handle defending the Jokic/Embiid/Nurkic/Gobert types on the interior. It doesn't seem likely he goes back to the Raptors either after getting jerked around for years by Nurse and them seemingly committing to FVV-Gary-Barnes-OG-Siakam as their starting 5.
Fox
DDV
Barnes
Boucher
Sabonis
I mean, that should work extremely well. You'd putting a serious infusion of defense with DDV and Boucher around your offensive core pieces, assuming Boucher can be 34-35% from 3 and DDV gets his legs back on the jumper. Leaves Mitchell, Holiday, Harkless, the FRP, Holmes (or the asset you get from Holmes), Davis, Metu off the bench. That'd be a pretty great hedge by McNair in terms of putting together a good young team now, but with some actual upside to get better and expand.
Fox
DDV
Barnes
Boucher
Sabonis
I mean, that should work extremely well. You'd putting a serious infusion of defense with DDV and Boucher around your offensive core pieces, assuming Boucher can be 34-35% from 3 and DDV gets his legs back on the jumper. Leaves Mitchell, Holiday, Harkless, the FRP, Holmes (or the asset you get from Holmes), Davis, Metu off the bench. That'd be a pretty great hedge by McNair in terms of putting together a good young team now, but with some actual upside to get better and expand.
Yeah you'd like to think Metu can be a better shooter than 28% from deep considering he's a career 74% FT shooter. He actually shoots well from the right side of the floor for whatever reason (38% from the right corner and 37.7% from above the break on the right side). It's the left side that where he's absolutely abysmal (19.6%).
Murray just had a really big statement game with a lot more offensive diversity than the few games I've seen. Some transition handle, some off-ball movement type stuff. Showed way more handle, way more individual shot creation from the perimeter. Love seeing the grab defensive board and go skill. Saw quite a few really nice C&S opportunities and there's nothing in the form that would suggest he can't be a good shooter.
I don't see like any potential wing upside, but he should still be a good switchable 4. He just looks like a quality starting 4 in the NBA. Athleticism, wingspan, good shot, some wing skills. Now that you mention it, current Barnes (not Warriors/prospect Barnes) is a pretty great comparison